December 11, 2017, 03:12:09 am

Author Topic: JTM Spy vs Spy Runback Day 6 (Black Spies Triumph!)  (Read 19313 times)

Missing Person

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Re: JTM Spy vs Spy Runback Day 6 (Black Spies Triumph!)
« Reply #1700 on: February 18, 2017, 05:41:11 pm »
Not gonna lie. I was a little salty that MP was so gung ho on me for possibly supporting a lynch on him, but had no problem with Chief who proposed the lynch in the first place and actually voted for it

Well, there was a reason for Chief's stance. As well as Cobalt's, that's why their votes weren't a problem.

It was your suddenly screeching halt and vocal attempt at jumping the train that set off warning flags.
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Re: JTM Spy vs Spy Runback Day 6 (Black Spies Triumph!)
« Reply #1701 on: February 18, 2017, 06:16:13 pm »
Funny thing is, at the time, i had no idea who was mafia and who wasn't. You really could have been mafia and i wouldn't have known
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ZOOLANDER

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Re: JTM Spy vs Spy Runback Day 6 (Black Spies Triumph!)
« Reply #1702 on: February 18, 2017, 06:56:35 pm »
GG, sorry for the DQ I started working 13 hour shifts and it being my first mafia game in like what 2 years it kind of slipped from me, but it's pretty interesting how dominant a role third parties have become almost as if it makes more work for civs since UC has to second guess himself even more.
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Bious

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Re: JTM Spy vs Spy Runback Day 6 (Black Spies Triumph!)
« Reply #1703 on: February 18, 2017, 07:05:07 pm »
GG, sorry for the DQ I started working 13 hour shifts and it being my first mafia game in like what 2 years it kind of slipped from me, but it's pretty interesting how dominant a role third parties have become almost as if it makes more work for civs since UC has to second guess himself even more.

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Pimp Willy

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Re: JTM Spy vs Spy Runback Day 6 (Black Spies Triumph!)
« Reply #1704 on: February 18, 2017, 11:17:23 pm »
SO, can we start our weekly One Night Ultimate Werewolf setup now?

What do we need for it? Whats the point/premise? We just need a new subsection for quicker games?

Message me on steam, bnet, skype, something and lets get it done
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✰Alpha✰

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Re: JTM Spy vs Spy Runback Day 6 (Black Spies Triumph!)
« Reply #1705 on: February 19, 2017, 12:34:12 am »
What do we need for it? Whats the point/premise? We just need a new subsection for quicker games?

Message me on steam, bnet, skype, something and lets get it done

Yeah, just a new subsection is all we need. Thinking about it, the subsection should just be called Weekly Games to not be specific, but yeah. The idea is that we have a subsection for those types of things so we're not flooding the other subsections.

I'll just explain the basic premise here for everyone's benefit, rather than flooding your messages. I'll post a fully detailed list of rules once the subsection is up, but here are the basics:

One Night Ultimate Werewolf (thinking about rebranding this to fit with JTM standards) is a card game that loosely follows the Mafia format (http://beziergames.com/collections/one-night-ultimate-werewolf/products/one-night-ultimate-werewolf). The biggest difference is that there's only one set of phases (one Night followed by one Day). Everyone takes their Night action in a specific order (same as normal Mafia), then Civs try to piece together what happened during the Night. If at the end, they vote to lynch a Werewolf, Civs win. If they vote to lynch a Civ, Werewolves win.

There are a couple of advantages to this format that make it easy to run weekly:
-Nobody dies, so everyone gets to play an equal amount
-Due to there only being one set of phases, games are over quickly, so afk's and "too much work"ers shouldn't be as much of an issue (since they only have to commit for a couple of days)
-There's a much higher chance of getting a role than the regular format
-All of the Night actions are simple to keep track of and easy for the GM to implement
-The minimum amount of players required to run a game is 3, so lack of sign-ups isn't a problem
-These can be run in conjunction with bigger Mafia games, since they shouldn't require too much attention

Day phases in the card game usually take about 5 minutes, so I'm thinking to start off with, we'll do 5 days of sign-ups, Night phase Saturday and Day phase Sunday, then we can decide if we want more or less time for any of them.

So yeah, tl;dr, the idea is that everyone can get their fix of Mafia with minimal effort required. Should we put the Weekly Games in the Other Games section, just in case someone else comes up with another easy to run format (weekly Arena/MSPaint anyone)?
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Re: JTM Spy vs Spy Runback Day 6 (Black Spies Triumph!)
« Reply #1706 on: February 19, 2017, 11:27:28 am »
Does the mafia get its own chat to talk to eachother too? Same as current games?

Is the only reason to have a second forum, instead of using the existing one, because you want to run a game of that in parallel with a full scale mafia game?

A big issue with that, is that in order to give somebody GM permissions, they gain access to a pretty wide set of permissions, including being able to see who is currently in the mafia player group. Simple Machines doesn't give the ability to restrict which user groups a person is able to see/assign people to, its an all or nothing thing. So the GM of this other game running in parallel may not be involved in the current full scale game at all, and vice versa. That limits our potential.

Secondly, Vote Bot. Its configured to only run and look at 1 board at a time, in this case the games thread. Though the way I configured it Im pretty sure I can set it up to run and check both boards, so this is more of just work that needs to be done rather than a dealbreaker.

So, given that we have no way to run 2 concurrent games at the same time... is there a reason we need a second set of boards, rather than just reusing the existing mafia board for these quicker games?
Because of this, is there really a need
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ForgeDigger

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Re: JTM Spy vs Spy Runback Day 6 (Black Spies Triumph!)
« Reply #1707 on: February 19, 2017, 02:20:24 pm »
Slack channels, maybe?

Will Alpha be the only one running them?
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✰Alpha✰

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Re: JTM Spy vs Spy Runback Day 6 (Black Spies Triumph!)
« Reply #1708 on: February 19, 2017, 05:11:46 pm »
Does the mafia get its own chat to talk to eachother too? Same as current games?

Is the only reason to have a second forum, instead of using the existing one, because you want to run a game of that in parallel with a full scale mafia game?

A big issue with that, is that in order to give somebody GM permissions, they gain access to a pretty wide set of permissions, including being able to see who is currently in the mafia player group. Simple Machines doesn't give the ability to restrict which user groups a person is able to see/assign people to, its an all or nothing thing. So the GM of this other game running in parallel may not be involved in the current full scale game at all, and vice versa. That limits our potential.

Secondly, Vote Bot. Its configured to only run and look at 1 board at a time, in this case the games thread. Though the way I configured it Im pretty sure I can set it up to run and check both boards, so this is more of just work that needs to be done rather than a dealbreaker.

So, given that we have no way to run 2 concurrent games at the same time... is there a reason we need a second set of boards, rather than just reusing the existing mafia board for these quicker games?
Because of this, is there really a need

Mafia does not get its own chat.

The GM does not need any special permissions, because there aren't any additional hidden rooms that anyone needs to be added to. All actions are recorded via PM. Hell, I'm pretty sure the whole game could be automated to be run by a bot (but it'd probably require a bunch of programming, and it's probably more work than it's worth).

Having Vote Bot count votes would be ideal, but if needed, votes can be counted manually. Although, does a person have to be a GM to post a player list for Vote Bot to count? If necessary, we can just have these running in between main games instead of all the time. That might work better, actually.

It's 100% possible to use the current Mafia board, but I'm just worried that the weekly games are going to fill the board up quickly and cause a lot of clutter. Maybe if we restrict all weekly sign-ups to one thread and just make an "Old Weekly Game Thread"? That sounds like the best solution from what you described as issues.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2017, 05:47:19 pm by ✰Alpha✰ »
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Missing Person

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Re: JTM Spy vs Spy Runback Day 6 (Black Spies Triumph!)
« Reply #1709 on: February 19, 2017, 05:43:11 pm »
Alpha, yes you need a GM account to post player lists. If automatedis doable, there IS the MafiaGM account that I created just in case that has permanent GM status.

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✰Alpha✰

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Re: JTM Spy vs Spy Runback Day 6 (Black Spies Triumph!)
« Reply #1710 on: February 19, 2017, 05:56:41 pm »
Alpha, yes you need a GM account to post player lists. If automatedis doable, there IS the MafiaGM account that I created just in case that has permanent GM status.

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We might need that. Let me think on the logistics of it.

<thinkingoutloud>
So every Saturday, a thread needs to be created in the Games Thread with a list of all players. How does the MafiaGM gather this list? All it needs the list for is for Vote Bot to have the player list.
For it to be fully automated, the MafiaGM would need to be able to distribute roles and calculate the actions, which would probably be a decent amount of work, so we'll keep that manual for now.
The best solution is probably to run at least one game manually, so Pimp can get a feel for how the game works and what would need to be done to automate (whatever could be automated).
</thinkingoutloud>

Yep, going with that. Gonna start work on a continuous Rules/Sign Up Thread for ONUW RIGHT FUCKING NOW, so that we can see how the format works on JTM. We'll run the first game as if it were a normal Mafia game in terms of GMing and permissions for testing purposes. Hit me up with Mafia GM permissions. Let's fuckin do this shit.
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Re: JTM Spy vs Spy Runback Day 6 (Black Spies Triumph!)
« Reply #1711 on: February 19, 2017, 06:33:50 pm »
Alpha for president
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Re: JTM Spy vs Spy Runback Day 6 (Black Spies Triumph!)
« Reply #1712 on: February 19, 2017, 06:54:46 pm »
Day 4 in a nutshell

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Re: JTM Spy vs Spy Runback Day 6 (Black Spies Triumph!)
« Reply #1713 on: February 19, 2017, 06:56:45 pm »
The sad thing is that lynching Rei would've been amazing for us, right?
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Reiraku

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Re: JTM Spy vs Spy Runback Day 6 (Black Spies Triumph!)
« Reply #1714 on: February 19, 2017, 07:03:20 pm »
It really would have been. Me and Cynt would have been gone, thus no enforcer and most of the other mafia were pegged in various capacity. That shift from me to Von was the best thing in the world, this game. Von came in like a drunken poet and drew so much heat, no one could help but vote to lynch him. Willy figured it out, but it was too late.
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Missing Person

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Re: JTM Spy vs Spy Runback Day 6 (Black Spies Triumph!)
« Reply #1715 on: February 19, 2017, 07:32:29 pm »
Yeah, I shouldve stuck on Rei. Killed Blindknagg at night (which was sincerely my next play), lynch von and hopefully watch Augustus squrm.

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Re: JTM Spy vs Spy Runback Day 6 (Black Spies Triumph!)
« Reply #1716 on: February 19, 2017, 08:10:42 pm »
Basically to make the MafiaGM create player lists would require it to poll sign up threads, and find something that states that a player is regiserting that is uniform. So probably a tag. like brackets with "in"

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✰Alpha✰

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Re: JTM Spy vs Spy Runback Day 6 (Black Spies Triumph!)
« Reply #1717 on: February 19, 2017, 11:05:50 pm »
Basically to make the MafiaGM create player lists would require it to poll sign up threads, and find something that states that a player is regiserting that is uniform. So probably a tag. like brackets with "in"

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That sounds plausible. We'll need a tag to stop counting players/separate weekly in's too probably.

@Pimp Willy: GM powers pls.
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Re: JTM Spy vs Spy Runback Day 6 (Black Spies Triumph!)
« Reply #1718 on: February 19, 2017, 11:41:47 pm »
I mean, we should move the discussion to a different thread. But to make an entire AI that can run a game... that is pretty huge. Just to think of the sort of things it has to do:

1) Create a thread automatically
2) Get a list of players who are in
3) Generate and assign roles
4) Start a game thread
5) Set a phase end time, automatically count votes, and resolve the votes by posting the role of the person who died
6) Move the game to night phase, and take actions from roles during the night via PM
7) End the night phase by posting all the actions that happened, responding to stuff like UC checks via PM
8) Keep track of all the factions and call the game once parity is reached

Compared to vote bot, we're talking orders of magnitude difference here. Vote bot is literally a program that is set to run 2 times an hour and do 1 task: count votes. To have something smart enough to actually run a game is no simple task. Could I do it? Sure. Do I want to dedicate the hundred+ hours to program it? Probably not.

Our best bet is to find an open source mafia game that somebody already wrote, and just rewrite the interface to post threads, get votes from there, get stuff from PMs, etc. And even that is a pretty big task.

If we're gonna talk more, lets take it to one of the tech talk threads.

I havent even found the willpower to make the leaderboards yet. Prior to this game I was ready to let the site fester and die.
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Re: JTM Spy vs Spy Runback Day 6 (Black Spies Triumph!)
« Reply #1719 on: February 20, 2017, 03:09:23 am »
Lol tbh if you want automated games just play them on mafia universe who already has their shit together

Seems like a hell of a lot of work to do something that a hub community already has

I'm like 99% certain you're allowed to do invite-only games there

Idk if the one night setup would be supported tho but just a thought
« Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 03:10:06 am by Cobalt »
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✰Alpha✰

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Re: JTM Spy vs Spy Runback Day 6 (Black Spies Triumph!)
« Reply #1720 on: February 20, 2017, 04:25:36 am »
Lol tbh if you want automated games just play them on mafia universe who already has their shit together

Seems like a hell of a lot of work to do something that a hub community already has

I'm like 99% certain you're allowed to do invite-only games there

Idk if the one night setup would be supported tho but just a thought

Yeah, automation would be the ideal state, but it's unrealistic and more work than it's worth. The major issue was that I didn't want to flood the Mafia subforums with threads, but I think having all the sign-ups in one thread has fixed that. Might still need an extra archive subforum to put the games though. Either that or have all the games come from the same thread, similar to sign-ups.
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Re: JTM Spy vs Spy Runback Day 6 (Black Spies Triumph!)
« Reply #1721 on: February 21, 2017, 07:34:11 am »
Good job, mafia. Cyntalan with the clutch read and enforce, BK with the overall understanding of thread feels (this ability is underappreciated), von keeping utr until the right time, and Aug keeping the team from making mistakes.
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