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Author Topic: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf  (Read 120756 times)

Metalmarsh89

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #100 on: August 11, 2015, 08:40:34 am »
This concerns me, as it is a misrepresentation of what happened. What happened was that Rico made a post calling a female player a "he". A reasonable mistake, as her user name is "Canuck" and her avatar a hockey player. Then one minute later, with no one posting inbetween or correcting him, he corrected himself.

At that point we were several hundred posts into the game, and he did NOT have time in one minute to review the thread to see if anyone else had used a female pronoun for Canuck. He got flak for it, talked his way out of it, and went on to win the game as a baddie.

So the fact that he is misrepresenting this, and that he is concerned about making the correct pronoun choices gets my eye.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/phpBB-3.0.11/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=525&p=110083#p110083

This links to the two posts.

Linki~ I know I would be expected to pick Indy; it's what I generally pick if given a choice, or baddie. But since I know that the people who know me will agree that that is true, I deleted the first list and reread the civvie roles, and made a new list. WIFOM to the max, yes, but true.

Of the people I know playing I might expect MM to choose civvie roles in general, and Rico to possibly do something similar to what I did, make a list of Indy/bad roles, anticipate this line of discussion and revise his list; which is why I say that what he did concerns me, but I have not voted for him yet. I could see Bass preferring to be bad BUT not bothering to submit a list. TGG has the confidence level to be telling the truth about not submitting a list, but he also has the balls to lie about it. I do not know Scotty or Sig well enough to say for sure, but I would expect Scotty to pick civ on short aquaintance. No idea about sig, the one game I have played with him is ongoing and he is alive and unrevealed.

The who would pick what thing is a lot of WIFOM, but sometimes on Day One it is better than nothing.

I remember the game in question, as I was Rico's partner in that game. The funny thing was that Ricochet was not corrected by a baddie teammate, he just noticed the error in his ways on his own. Neither Roxy nor I was online at the time, so it was all entirely on him.

Also, I did not send a list in, so regardless of what anyone thinks I want to be aligned as, I opted for a pure randomization.
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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #101 on: August 11, 2015, 08:44:17 am »
@Augustus, what alignments were your first 4 choices?
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Augustus

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #102 on: August 11, 2015, 08:52:27 am »
It's not any fun if I tell you.
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Rico

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #103 on: August 11, 2015, 09:02:14 am »
Have to study and then go to a movie at a local openair filmfest, so I'll be back in a few hours. My pings, so far

From the case on me:

SVS for basically what I said in a reply to jasonC. Feels like pushing hard with that meta and spider webbing me, given how easy the "he did it back then and he was bad" equation works.
jasonC for seeming content real quick with SVS' case on me before hearing any other side to it; and for adding TGG and MP on his top 3 without any reasoning beforehand. His reasoning for TGG now looks retrospective and offered only when asked about it.

From the "who'd pick mafia" meta:

Gagarina for his stance on the debate even being worth it. Again, seems a bit odd and contradictory to call it irrelevant due to the low amount of requests sent in a previous game, when apparently that low amount influenced players to actually receive one of their desired role. Hence the meta debate being valid, hence Gagarina's anti-stance on it being slightly off.

From an actual "who'd pick mafia" candidate:

idk, maybe TGG? As I've said, it'd be a pretty cheeky yomi for him to say he'd never care for it in the signups phase, in anticipation of such a debate taking place. But him not giving a shit also sounds pretty consistent with him, lol.

----

Is there any other way to ISO besides looking up a player's profile on his overall posts history? (as in to get a selection of his posts only in the specific game, like we have on TS)
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Augustus

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #104 on: August 11, 2015, 09:04:19 am »
Is there any other way to ISO besides looking up a player's profile on his overall posts history? (as in to get a selection of his posts only in the specific game, like we have on TS)

User Profile > Show Posts > Type "3" in the filter box
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Rico

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #105 on: August 11, 2015, 09:05:24 am »
User Profile > Show Posts > Type "3" in the filter box

Great, thanks!
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Metalmarsh89

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #106 on: August 11, 2015, 09:16:20 am »
Now I'm at the dentist, so I get to play mafia on novacain. I don't think I'll get to be properly sober this entire day period.  :sigh:
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XthAtGAm3RGuYX

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #107 on: August 11, 2015, 09:20:55 am »
Checking in. Jesus fuck I can't read this much on my lunchbreak. This is the fastest day one I've seen in awhile. Ill get caught up after work when I'm doing laundry. Will also finally read the roles and discuss mechanics.

I didn't submit a list fyi
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Pimp Willy

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #108 on: August 11, 2015, 09:32:00 am »
I'm here. List of suspects straight off the bat goes something like this:

Pimp Willy
People with a history of picking Mafia
People who didn't submit a list (BK, TGG, Syn)
Everyone else

I'd be lying if I said I didn't pick some mafia roles on my list.

What surprises me is that I didn't get them.
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Pimp Willy

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #109 on: August 11, 2015, 09:43:42 am »
Im also about to break Jesus Toast's first commandment, "Thou shalt not no lynch day 1"

Since this is a role madness game, is the risk of losing a role day 1 worth it for a random stab in the dark? Normally I am all for lynching day 1, the more blood the better. But here, it just seems more prudent to sit on our hands and let the roles do some work.

I havent actually looked at the mafia vs civ roles and tried to figure out if the actions could benefit us enough, but if Im correct every single person has a role right?

The only things preventing us from role claiming is the godfather who can kill people if he knows their roles? So if we can take that role out, its an easy win, correct?
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Pimp Willy

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #110 on: August 11, 2015, 09:43:57 am »
Vote Registered For No Lynch
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jasonC

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #111 on: August 11, 2015, 09:58:49 am »
Pimp Willy, that is just downright lazy.
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Vote Bot

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Current Votes
« Reply #112 on: August 11, 2015, 10:00:06 am »
No Vote(26):Adam Levine, Amalgam Ego, Augustus, Bass The Clever, Blindknagg, Cosmizard, descuffphoenix, DrWilgy, Flaggermus, Fruit Punch Samurai G, Gagarina, jasonC, Jefferson Reed, Metalmarsh89, myusername22, Phorcys, quinn, Raevyn, Rico, SVS, Scotty, Sig, Wolf, XthAtGAm3RGuYX, ZA WARUDO, Zeus
Invalid Vote(2):✰Alpha✰, Missing Person
No Lynch(1):Pimp Willy
Synonym(1):Synonym
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Cobalt

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #113 on: August 11, 2015, 10:03:06 am »
The only things preventing us from role claiming is the godfather who can kill people if he knows their roles? So if we can take that role out, its an easy win, correct?
Incorrect. Triple kill is passed down to other mafia members. Claim-to-victory scenario is pretty much not an option.

Please read the roles guys. I've gotten so many questions and misconstrued ideas that could be answered if you take five minutes to read everything.
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✰Alpha✰

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #114 on: August 11, 2015, 10:05:20 am »
I'd be lying if I said I didn't pick some mafia roles on my list.

What surprises me is that I didn't get them.


Which ones didn't you get?

The only things preventing us from role claiming is the godfather who can kill people if he knows their roles? So if we can take that role out, its an easy win, correct?

Nope. Godfather passes his role down. If we can take down all the Mafia, we can role claim to hunt down the third parties.
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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #115 on: August 11, 2015, 10:06:19 am »
30 players, all have roles.

7 mafia
4 3rd party (1 SK, 1 Survivor, 2 swingers)
19 civ4lyfe

8/30 or roughly 27% chance to hit someone we need to lynch if we go "shot in the dark" as you say. At least narrow the field down a bit with reads and discussion.
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✰Alpha✰

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #116 on: August 11, 2015, 10:12:04 am »
Please read the roles guys. I've gotten so many questions and misconstrued ideas that could be answered if you take five minutes to read everything.

@Cobalt, how many players can the Detective investigate per night?
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That bio is the douchiest thing I have read all year, and I am an editor for yeswearedouchebags.com.

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #117 on: August 11, 2015, 10:16:06 am »
30 players, all have roles.

7 mafia
4 3rd party (1 SK, 1 Survivor, 2 swingers)
19 civ4lyfe

8/30 or roughly 27% chance to hit someone we need to lynch if we go "shot in the dark" as you say. At least narrow the field down a bit with reads and discussion.

11/30 in my case. It's a weird thought that I want over 1/3rd of the current players dead.

Then again, by the end of the game, it's usually a lot more than that.
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That bio is the douchiest thing I have read all year, and I am an editor for yeswearedouchebags.com.

jasonC

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #118 on: August 11, 2015, 10:18:18 am »
SVS is an excellent player who could probably squeeze D1 pings out of rocks. However, the depth of the case she crafted (plus the misrepresentation of it: my overall slipping habit = my slip in a game I was bad = I'm bad) makes me lean mafia atm.

Perhaps you misunderstood my point. If SVS is an excellent player, would she, as mafia, stick her neck out like that on page 1 to push a mislynch on you? It just seems too ballsy of a mafia play. With a team of 7, I would hope there would be a stronger concerted strategy...or at least some BTSC guidance, but the timing seemed off. If she were mafia, she would have chosen to not ask her team if presenting this evidence against you would have been a good idea or not.
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Cobalt

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #119 on: August 11, 2015, 10:19:03 am »
@Cobalt, how many players can the Detective investigate per night?
@✰Alpha✰ I'm gonna punch you, you little twat. :skull:
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 10:19:26 am by Cobalt »
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Blindknagg

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #120 on: August 11, 2015, 10:23:37 am »
I agree with Jason.

No lynching would leave our roles with less information(vote pattern, lynch flip, etc) to work with night 1 so sitting the first day out when everyone has a role is a no no imo.

No lynching also gives the traitor one extra day to survive and give Matt Daehler a kill stock. So even if the odds of lynching him is slim when there's still 30 players left it's still something that we need to consider.

Quote
Jackson Whittemore
Kanima: You are a traitor. If anyone targets you, they will be paralyzed and lose their ability for one phase, with the exception of Lydia and Danny. If Lydia targets you, you convert to civilian, and lose the ability to paralyze. If you are not converted by night three, Matt Daehler gains one kill stock for use through you. You win with mafia if you are unconverted, and you win with civilians if converted.

Quote
Matt Daehler
Handler: If Jackson has not been targeted by Lydia Martin and converted to civilian by night three, you gain one kill stock for use through your kanima. You do not know his identity.
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Pimp Willy

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #121 on: August 11, 2015, 10:26:02 am »
Incorrect. Triple kill is passed down to other mafia members. Claim-to-victory scenario is pretty much not an option.

Please read the roles guys. I've gotten so many questions and misconstrued ideas that could be answered if you take five minutes to read everything.

Its why I don't like role madness games, because its more about managing and memorizing the roles than making reads, but I must say the GM stepping in to answer questions asked of the players is... interesting.

Which ones didn't you get?

Nope. Godfather passes his role down. If we can take down all the Mafia, we can role claim to hunt down the third parties.

I put in for Argent and Aiden as my top 2 roles. (Argent redirects kills and flips investigation results, Aiden can kill somebody who lynched them and also convert his brother if he can find him),
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jasonC

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #122 on: August 11, 2015, 10:28:47 am »
jasonC for seeming content real quick with SVS' case on me before hearing any other side to it; and for adding TGG and MP on his top 3 without any reasoning beforehand. His reasoning for TGG now looks retrospective and offered only when asked about it.

I do this a lot, scum or not; although I've mostly been scum. But if this is a common scumtell, thank you for pointing it out.

As for MP - it was a read after a page 1 filled with posts about nothing - the only thing maybe that looked semi-good was pointing out ZA WARUDO.
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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #123 on: August 11, 2015, 10:32:55 am »
Its why I don't like role madness games, because its more about managing and memorizing the roles than making reads, but I must say the GM stepping in to answer questions asked of the players is... interesting.
Am I not supposed to answer questions about the mechanics of my game when they're proposed? :rip:

Fact remains that everyone should know what they're doing because everyone should have read everything. If you haven't yet, do so now. When you're blatantly unaware of a mechanic I will have the decency to point it out.

I also didn't realize you were mostly asking the other players. My bad.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 10:33:22 am by Cobalt »
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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #124 on: August 11, 2015, 10:34:24 am »
I put in for Argent and Aiden as my top 2 roles. (Argent redirects kills and flips investigation results, Aiden can kill somebody who lynched them and also convert his brother if he can find him),

Hmm. So if you aren't lying about this, anyone that didn't submit a list is neither Argent nor Aiden.
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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #125 on: August 11, 2015, 10:35:05 am »
Am I not supposed to answer questions about the mechanics of my game when they're proposed? :rip:

Fact remains that everyone should know what they're doing because everyone should have read everything. If you haven't yet, do so now. When you're blatantly unaware of a mechanic I will have the decency to point it out.

I also didn't realize you were mostly asking the other players. My bad.

If I was mafia, and my strategy was to sow disinformation into the thread under the guise of being bad, then no your place is not to step in and answer questions

But alas, the fact that you did answer it, proves that I am indeed civilian. So thanks for that.

:coffee:
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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #126 on: August 11, 2015, 10:35:54 am »
If I was mafia, and my strategy was to sow disinformation into the thread under the guise of being bad, then no your place is not to step in and answer questions

But alas, the fact that you did answer it, proves that I am indeed civilian. So thanks for that.

:coffee:
Nothing I post will ever indicate anyone's alignment. Nice try.
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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #127 on: August 11, 2015, 10:36:25 am »
Hmm. So if you aren't lying about this, anyone that didn't submit a list is neither Argent nor Aiden.

Probably, but it's just as easy for me to lie about who I picked as it is for somebody to lie about not submitting a list
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Pimp Willy

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #128 on: August 11, 2015, 10:37:24 am »
Nothing I post will ever indicate anyone's alignment. Nice try.

Not intentionally, no, but you would never step on a mafia teams gameplay like that. So inadvertently, by getting involved when you didn't need to, you did.
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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #129 on: August 11, 2015, 10:41:03 am »
I agree with Jason.

No lynching would leave our roles with less information(vote pattern, lynch flip, etc) to work with night 1 so sitting the first day out when everyone has a role is a no no imo.

No lynching also gives the traitor one extra day to survive and give Matt Daehler a kill stock. So even if the odds of lynching him is slim when there's still 30 players left it's still something that we need to consider.


Theres merit to this, its the same as any other game, with the downside here of not losing a (statistically) roleless civ, but rather a ROLED civ. In a game where so much power is put on the roles, does that not make it more dangerous?
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jasonC

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #130 on: August 11, 2015, 10:50:16 am »
If MP is mafia, so is Raevyn.
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jasonC

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #131 on: August 11, 2015, 10:55:55 am »
Theres merit to this, its the same as any other game, with the downside here of not losing a (statistically) roleless civ, but rather a ROLED civ. In a game where so much power is put on the roles, does that not make it more dangerous?

But everyone has a role. It shouldn't scare us from lynching. The game hopefully was designed with balance so that not one single role is uber important and that the game can be won without all roles alive. Basically you can't have a bad mislynch because the other civs alive still have roles. At heart, lynching should still be the name of the game.
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Blindknagg

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #132 on: August 11, 2015, 10:59:29 am »
Theres merit to this, its the same as any other game, with the downside here of not losing a (statistically) roleless civ, but rather a ROLED civ. In a game where so much power is put on the roles, does that not make it more dangerous?

While I can somewhat understand your reasoning behind a no lynch I'm not sure how much there is to gain from conserving our roles in a game where everyone has a role. Some of which are less usefull than others (write-up messages *cough*).
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Metalmarsh89

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #133 on: August 11, 2015, 11:13:49 am »
Too early to tell. Rico scares me tbh. Just power-read some of his games over on TS and I am suitably impressed. Long Con did a good job of getting me interested in flipping sites but from what I just read there are tons of players on TS who are exceptional.

Would you believe me if I told you we were baddie teammates again?
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Metalmarsh89

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #134 on: August 11, 2015, 11:18:28 am »
Just no. Fucking no.

Dislike with a passion.

You cannot rule out any discussion that could give us information.

WIFOM-sandwich for lunch. Let me know if you discover anything.
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Rico

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #135 on: August 11, 2015, 11:19:55 am »
Would you believe me if I told you we were baddie teammates again?

^One time he openly asked me in the game thread to kill myself, even if we were on the same faction.  ;D
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Metalmarsh89

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #136 on: August 11, 2015, 11:23:34 am »
TGG I can understand, but why descuff? Revenge for his failure in Salt Therapy?

What is Salt Therapy? A game?

Linki: I knew you were on the same faction, but you didn't even follow through on it.  :disappoint:
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Metalmarsh89

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #137 on: August 11, 2015, 11:25:12 am »
Is there a way to get an isolated view of a single player's posts in this game?
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Augustus

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #138 on: August 11, 2015, 11:27:33 am »
User Profile > Show Posts > Type "3" in the filter box
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Blindknagg

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Metalmarsh89

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #140 on: August 11, 2015, 11:31:18 am »
Thanks, it looks like you've answered this question already, though I had not yet seen it.
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Metalmarsh89

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Blindknagg

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #142 on: August 11, 2015, 11:51:08 am »
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myusername22

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #143 on: August 11, 2015, 12:01:22 pm »
okay, time to check in.

I'm having a hard time understanding any of this, so no reads yet. I'm finding the entire Rico event and the accusations against him interesting so I'll go back and read that with some attempt to understand. I was honestly afraid I wouldn't catch up with there being 3 pages already....

Sadly, I could not understand half of what I just read due to the old game references, the jargon related only to this website rather than all mafia games, and the references to other players standard game tendencies of which I am unaware. A role madness game isn't great for reads so I can honestly see very little narrowing down the field based on reads this early, especially since I don't understand a lot of terminology >< ;However, I don't think it's a great idea to just start off with a no-lynch either... it's best to wait and see what information we can get before giving up this day.

If anyone's interested in knowing: I did not submit a list. I feel like it puts a lot of meta Arguments into the game and I come from another website where meta arguments are generally frowned upon and not considered part of the game. I feel the same way and Prefer not to take meta arguments in this game.

I'm going to go back and re-read/scum hunt, but I'd like to know @Cobalt how much time is left in this day?
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Cobalt

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #144 on: August 11, 2015, 12:03:18 pm »
I'm going to go back and re-read/scum hunt, but I'd like to know @Cobalt how much time is left in this day?
31 hours. It ends 10PM EST tomorrow night. That's 7PM PST, and 3AM if anyone's like British or something.
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Amalgam Ego

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #145 on: August 11, 2015, 12:35:20 pm »
Lots of fluff.

Rico and SVS seems like a classic civilian distraction. The argument barely has any substance based on a "previous game". Who cares, we're in this game. I highly doubt a gender correlation on mafia posts will get us anywhere. It is something, but I don't expect it to yield any conclusive results based on that. Granted I do not know much about them as players, but it is a risky move Day 1 given all the abilities in game. Overall sounds like a waste of time to me and more on emotional drama. I don't know their purpose for inciting it if one is mafia, but at this point in the game anyone can have ulterior motives to simply get a wedge into the game.

Gagarina is interesting too. Considering the amount of people that claim they did not put in role lists, quite strange many people did not get their first picks. Myself included (third pick). This leads me to believe some people are flat out lying about not putting in a list. Certain roles were definitely prioritized and I'm certain I know which as should most of you. That being said it is on my radar as potential scum, but his tone seems clear to me so far.

Lastly no lynching would be a ridiculous in this game. We lose far more in the long run with a mafia kill and most likely Kate killing a civilian as well. Bit silly to suggest that in this game, but really no one at this point has irked me. I will check back later when I have more time to re-read and when more people post.
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jasonC

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #146 on: August 11, 2015, 12:40:55 pm »
Hmm. Well, I got my first pick. It must be a role that nobody wanted.
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Rico

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #147 on: August 11, 2015, 01:28:45 pm »
31 hours. It ends 10PM EST tomorrow night. That's 7PM PST, and 3AM if anyone's like British or something.

Tfw my time zone is worse than the British.

Back home. Will reply to some stuff in a while
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Rico

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #148 on: August 11, 2015, 01:57:01 pm »
Perhaps you misunderstood my point. If SVS is an excellent player, would she, as mafia, stick her neck out like that on page 1 to push a mislynch on you? It just seems too ballsy of a mafia play. With a team of 7, I would hope there would be a stronger concerted strategy...or at least some BTSC guidance, but the timing seemed off. If she were mafia, she would have chosen to not ask her team if presenting this evidence against you would have been a good idea or not.

I don't have meta, personal experience or feedback on how SVS acts as mafia. It is, in theory, reasonable to consider if she didn't happen to pick up something and drum on it in a civ way, but, as I've said, what differentiates it for me is the incisiveness of her case crafting and the bendiness in her correlation between slip and baddie indicator.

Plus, I don't know how much mafia strategising is a given for you, but the only time I've been in a mafia team, we didn't really strategise how to frame someone or stuff like that. Of course, that doesn't mean a mafia team couldn't have "strong strategies" in mind or that SVS herself couldn't be a strategist. But it's not something I always have in mind. Besides, isn't your question a bit self-defeating on a larger scale? Do we wonder about every player that pings us early on if they'd risk doing it without assistance or consulting first with the team? Of course not.
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Rico

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Re: Jesus Toast Mafia VI: Teen Wolf
« Reply #149 on: August 11, 2015, 02:40:34 pm »
As for Pimp Willy's stance (the stuff he misunderstood about how some roles work notwithstanding), whilst I can understand a bit of what he's suggesting (and it's quite interesting, from a foreigner's perspective), I'm not sure it's all on the level. For one thing - and I'm sorry if it's a culture difference - non-commital stances on lynching are usually frowned upon by us, no matter how tough it is to pick on something from D1 or how much you'd think catching mafia on D1 would be a crapshoot; plus, this game is hardly so "maddening" with its roles setup for us over at TS and we never have issues with potentially mislynching and losing an important civ. It can (and did) happen, but, if the game is balanced, it's not a total disaster, even on the long term.

Overall, though, I'd agree with jasonC and Blindknagg that lynching should still be our main weapon, that the fact that the entire field of players has a role shouldn't make us pull back from hunting and lynching, that we shouldn't lose a first day of generating vote patterns and flips to analyse. Letting a day pass just for the roles to activate means letting civ abilities activate as much letting mafia/third party ones activate - including night kills. Sure, PW might suggest why risk losing 2 civs (one by lynch, one by night kill) instead of losing just 1 (by night kill). But this strategy would only work if all 30 of us would go for "no lynch" on this Day, right? Yet since that is highly unlikely to happen, if we will mislynch a civ by the end of this Day, you'll rather have washed your hands with it.
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