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Author Topic: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge  (Read 14791 times)

jasonC

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #150 on: March 31, 2015, 11:33:40 am »
Matrix is moving.

New cost to move Matrix:
Rolled 1d5 : 5, total 5
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ForgeDigger

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #151 on: March 31, 2015, 11:35:40 am »
Anyone wanna bet 2 coins that the pentagon will still be there after 2 more phases?
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jasonC

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #152 on: March 31, 2015, 11:45:18 am »
Sigh. No time to actually play this game. Spent 2 phases in space, 1 phase killing somebody ,and then I was controlled to my death.

Too much randomness, not enough room for players to actually play each other. And I see you're sending even more hazards in : (

edited - see below
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 02:03:55 pm by jasonC »
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Pimp Willy

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #153 on: March 31, 2015, 11:58:37 am »
Salty
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ForgeDigger

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #154 on: March 31, 2015, 12:36:29 pm »
Barricade
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RadicalFuzz

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #155 on: March 31, 2015, 12:38:36 pm »
sponsor
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jasonC

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #156 on: March 31, 2015, 12:52:10 pm »
"Sponsor" is a no go because it is a game-related word.

"Salty" is a contender.
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XthAtGAm3RGuYX

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #157 on: March 31, 2015, 01:37:42 pm »
TGG you're an asshole
Still shouldn't have chosen me.


I mean really. Did you expect me to let you get away with being so happy about killing me?

My original plan was to possess you and make you beat yourself to death but that was impossible unfortunately.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 01:38:45 pm by XthAtGAm3RGuYX »
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ForgeDigger

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #158 on: March 31, 2015, 01:39:02 pm »
You threw a missile at me. Apparently that's okay.

Ohhh but if I threw 2 grenades at you it's totally unfair.

.-.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 01:41:07 pm by ForgeDigger »
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jasonC

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #159 on: March 31, 2015, 02:04:06 pm »
Well I'll share a couple thoughts right now....one of the primary drivers for developing this game was the use of teamwork.

There are/were plenty of opportunities for teamwork in this game.  This should have been apparent from the get go - (not enough items for everyone, not enough ships for everyone, TRANSFORM abilities that were gave buffs to others, the game theme was team vs. team, etc).  Everyone wanted to play single-player though, so that's on you guys - I would say Hecatom was the only player who was thinking about alliances, but nobody else seemed to want to entertain it.  It isn't just this game, it's also when we play mafia, which is why we are so bad at it....we are all too paranoid to trust each other and end up playing single-player. 

Re: Hazards - it's tough to balance these.  Really, the meteors/earthquakes was just a hazard to get people off the first planet, risking their lives by staying to scavenge good shit, and to kill off inactives - so I would say this worked for the most part.  Then for the past 3-4 phases, its the same NPC (Pentagon) that the players are refusing to team up to take down.  If that was destroyed first, it would have been 3-4 phases of no hazards, but the players are just ignoring it.   
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ForgeDigger

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #160 on: March 31, 2015, 02:07:33 pm »
Alpha and I had an alliance, I don't know what you're talking about.
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BeigeSand

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #161 on: March 31, 2015, 02:46:09 pm »
Does anyone else love augustus? Because I love augustus, I want to blow him up...with nukes.
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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #162 on: March 31, 2015, 03:15:04 pm »
If you wanted to build an arena game around teamwork, you shouldnt have made it so theres only 1 winner
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ForgeDigger

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #163 on: March 31, 2015, 03:46:16 pm »
I'd rather blow up will tbh.
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XthAtGAm3RGuYX

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #164 on: March 31, 2015, 04:00:59 pm »
You threw a missile at me. Apparently that's okay.

Ohhh but if I threw 2 grenades at you it's totally unfair.

.-.

Yeah but I missed. And like I said I was testing what side you were on. If you lived that meant you were an autobot, and I didn't want to pursue you further because you might be optimus. If you died, it meant you were a decepticon and fuck you, autobots for life.

Thing is, your ability made me miss. Completely. And you killed me for the attempt that would have never hit you in the first place. After I missed I was actually going to scavenge a tree and leave you alone.

Doesnt help that you were really snarky about the fact that you killed me. That annoyed me.
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ForgeDigger

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #165 on: March 31, 2015, 04:18:38 pm »
Well good, it annoyed me that you tried to killed me for pretty much no reason and shrugged it off like it didn't mean anything and was definitely warranted.

If you didn't want to get revenge killed, you shouldn't have hit the person who could easily kill you.

Throwing a missile at someone is an act of war, my friend. Sorry if that didn't seem obvious.

It wasn't the only reason I killed you, anyway. I thought since you knew something about my ability you were going to kill me. Plus your weapon was nicer than most of the other ones around.
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Missing Person

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #166 on: March 31, 2015, 04:55:58 pm »
Fuckin Murrica

我是罗恩勃艮第吗?

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"I love you, you love me. Barney raped me by the sea." --Synonym
"Why do I feel like I'm being fooled by you both?  I can't find the penis.  I need to find the penis." --Augustus
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XthAtGAm3RGuYX

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #167 on: March 31, 2015, 05:00:06 pm »
Well good, it annoyed me that you tried to killed me for pretty much no reason

No I actually thought you were a Decepticon.
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ForgeDigger

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #168 on: March 31, 2015, 05:06:20 pm »
All that means is that were actually trying to kill me. lol
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 05:06:31 pm by ForgeDigger »
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XthAtGAm3RGuYX

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #169 on: March 31, 2015, 05:16:29 pm »
All that means is that were actually trying to kill me. lol

I think you're just salty that I got you back for getting me back.
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ForgeDigger

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #170 on: March 31, 2015, 05:17:44 pm »
Of course I am. :P

Who wouldn't be?
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jasonC

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #171 on: March 31, 2015, 06:36:42 pm »
If you wanted to build an arena game around teamwork, you shouldnt have made it so theres only 1 winner

I would have thought by saying "it's almost impossible to beat unicron" would make you guys want to go ahead and try it. #demday1misreads
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Missing Person

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #172 on: March 31, 2015, 07:09:02 pm »
@jasonC I'm using 1 coin to refill drwill439's energon.
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"I love you, you love me. Barney raped me by the sea." --Synonym
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"That's when I decided to give up on my dream to become an X-Man and begin pursuing girls." --tortugagrande, champion of all our hearts.

jasonC

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #173 on: March 31, 2015, 07:19:35 pm »
ok
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jasonC

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #174 on: March 31, 2015, 07:29:03 pm »
This phase could be very interesting.  I'll let you guys know that Skizzz has put in an attack on drwill.  That's 2d4+7 damage or (9 to 15 damage).  Everyone else is undecided on their actions, especially Augustus lol.  He's been banking to get that Slag buff, but he can't figure out the word lol.
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Missing Person

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #175 on: March 31, 2015, 07:46:40 pm »
Use my other coin to PM drwill; About to get bodied. Defend yourself well, my leige.
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"I love you, you love me. Barney raped me by the sea." --Synonym
"Why do I feel like I'm being fooled by you both?  I can't find the penis.  I need to find the penis." --Augustus
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"Get your goddamn Battle Arena Toshinden shit out of my Tekken." --Souther
"That's when I decided to give up on my dream to become an X-Man and begin pursuing girls." --tortugagrande, champion of all our hearts.

ForgeDigger

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #176 on: March 31, 2015, 09:45:21 pm »
Question: it says that it's 1 coin to refill energon to 4 cubes, but I thought we can only hold 3. Shouldn't that mean that 4 cubes causes an implosion, or whatever?
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Missing Person

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #177 on: March 31, 2015, 10:02:32 pm »
I also demand the codeword to be Nigga.
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"I love you, you love me. Barney raped me by the sea." --Synonym
"Why do I feel like I'm being fooled by you both?  I can't find the penis.  I need to find the penis." --Augustus
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"Get your goddamn Battle Arena Toshinden shit out of my Tekken." --Souther
"That's when I decided to give up on my dream to become an X-Man and begin pursuing girls." --tortugagrande, champion of all our hearts.

jasonC

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #178 on: March 31, 2015, 10:17:36 pm »
Question: it says that it's 1 coin to refill energon to 4 cubes, but I thought we can only hold 3. Shouldn't that mean that 4 cubes causes an implosion, or whatever?

After one phase of holding above capacity, you become "overcharged", then if you are overcharged at the end of the next phase, that is when the energon blows up.
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jasonC

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #179 on: March 31, 2015, 10:17:59 pm »
Use my other coin to PM drwill; About to get bodied. Defend yourself well, my leige.

Ok
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Pimp Willy

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #180 on: March 31, 2015, 11:01:30 pm »
I find it unfair that you announced Skizzz's actions, so that MP could warn him. How on earth is that fair?

If you wanted to build an arena game around teamwork, you shouldnt have made it so theres only 1 winner

I would have thought by saying "it's almost impossible to beat unicron" would make you guys want to go ahead and try it. #demday1misreads

Well, you set up the Autobot vs Decepticon factions, but theres really no reason for them to be at each others throats. Me, as the leader of the autobots, actually got stronger when my allies died; why wouldn't I want them to die? And as for the abilities to buff other people, the cost is far too high; you have to spend a phase scavenging energon, which leaves you vulnerable to other players and stage hazards, and on top of that you spend another phase action to buff the other people who will just be more likely to kill you!

Now, if say one faction was destroyed completely and then the other faction wins, then maybe it would be worth teaming up and trying to ally. But as it is, there just isn't any incentive to even consider it.

As for not teaming up to kill the pentagon, its true you could team up and kill it, but the truth is if you do, you're just massively behind somebody else who spent the phase getting stronger, so why would you even consider it?

Its the prisoners dilemma, theres no benefit to cooperating
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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #181 on: March 31, 2015, 11:07:41 pm »
Also I fixed the permission issue that let non active players make replies to the game thread :tup:
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Cobalt

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #182 on: April 01, 2015, 01:26:28 am »
I WAS RIGHT ABOUT THE WORD HUNTING I'M DYING LAUGHING SO HARD

Do we need the Matrix on Skizz for drwill to die?
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jasonC

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #183 on: April 01, 2015, 05:18:44 am »
How on earth is that fair?

Would it have been on Cybertron?  wah wah waaa

- actions aren't locked.
- I announced it to all sponsors.
- PMs are announced in thread.
- PMs are anonymous.
- sponsors could be lying.
- sponsors can counter PM if they so choose.
- coins / 10-word cap limit the amount of communication.

I've tried to make this game more sponsor-centric than the last couple (where it just wasn't a factor, really) and given them a ton of power.

FYI - It seems like drwill is ignoring MP's PM for the most part.
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jasonC

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #184 on: April 01, 2015, 05:30:42 am »
And yes, this is exactly the prisoner's dilemma.  Except, I think you misspoke.  In the prisoner's dilemma, the BEST outcome occurs if everyone cooperates.  It is just that human nature prefers to go for a known outcome, trusting your own actions more than others. 

On the game design - I tried to make it versatile for the players so they could have as many options as they could while keeping the gameplay simple: For Optimus and Megatron - giving their team +2 to def was reason for each squad to "lynch" the leader of the other team.  At the same time, the leaders earning +atk buffs when their teammates died was for 2 reasons - one was like "ultra" meter, and the other was so that you could play single-player and be all serial-killer like.

I ran two mock scenarios of this game after developing it.  One with Optimus/Megs claiming the first day and having their teams back them up in a serious Autobot vs Decepticon war.  The other was no claiming and ppl playing single player.  Both worked out ok and I made some tweaks.  What I did not expect was for 3 inactive players and players not understanding all the rules/options until mid-game.
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ForgeDigger

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #185 on: April 01, 2015, 06:11:22 am »
By that logic can you tell me if Skizzz changed his action at this point?
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jasonC

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #186 on: April 01, 2015, 06:35:36 am »
By that logic can you tell me if Skizzz changed his action at this point?

At this point, no.  But I wonder what Augustus is scheming.  And by no, I mean - Skizzz has not changed his action.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 07:23:34 am by jasonC »
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jasonC

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #187 on: April 01, 2015, 08:50:12 am »
Missile damage
Rolled 2d2 : 2, 1, total 3
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jasonC

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #188 on: April 01, 2015, 08:54:13 am »
That was meant for the RNG record, but i'll use this result.
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Pimp Willy

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #189 on: April 01, 2015, 09:18:29 am »
Reminds me, wouldn't I have hit alpha for +1 extra damage anyway because I was coming out of stealth as well, regardless of if TGG boosted my attack by dying? So in reality he was dead no matter what?
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jasonC

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #190 on: April 01, 2015, 09:24:27 am »
PW - I can't move topics anymore?  I thought I was able to before - can you move the threads to the Old/Archived sections?
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jasonC

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #191 on: April 01, 2015, 09:26:22 am »
Just the game thread I can't move, apparently.
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jasonC

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #192 on: April 01, 2015, 09:29:16 am »
Reminds me, wouldn't I have hit alpha for +1 extra damage anyway because I was coming out of stealth as well, regardless of if TGG boosted my attack by dying? So in reality he was dead no matter what?

I accounted for stealth.

you rolled a 1 for the damage
got +1 for dead Ironhide
got +1 for stealth.

TGG gave you the extra +1 to overcome Alpha's 3 def at that time
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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #193 on: April 01, 2015, 09:34:48 am »
Yeah you're right; I thought I had more than +1 bonus damage that turn, but it turns out I didn't. I mis-remembered how much bonus damage I had going into that attack, so the stealth is really what sealed the deal
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Pimp Willy

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #194 on: April 01, 2015, 09:40:40 am »
Also, in prisoners dilemma, its not really true that the best outcome is if both players cooperate; traditionally, if both players cooperate each gets punished, though less than the full punishment.

Both cooperate: Each get 1 year jail
Both betray: Each gets 2 year jail
One cooperates, one doesn't; betrayer goes free, cooperater gets 3 years

Of course its never that clear cut in real games, but here
Both cooperate: Net neutral, pentagon is dead
Both betray: Theoretically net netural, both get stronger from scavenging (or killing another, getting closer to the end goal)
One Cooperates, One Betrays: Betrayer comes out ahead in resources

And then when you start realizing theres more than 2 players, the result matrix gets convoluted, but the result is the same; betrayers come out ahead

Its hard to balance a game like this I think, for sure, but as somebody who actually played in this game, I didn't feel like I had any room to actually play.
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jasonC

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #195 on: April 01, 2015, 09:56:33 am »
I can see how it was frustrating for the player.  I've already started milling around in my head of the next arena game I'd like to GM - completely player- centric, super simple, life-threatening hazards are almost non-existent, RNG to a minimum, open concept. 
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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #196 on: April 01, 2015, 10:47:51 am »
I think it was in my Psychology class that we discussed Prisoner's dilemma and I remember arguing about what the best outcome actually was.

One way to look at it was to minimize the number of years in jail totaled between the two:
Each get 1 year in jail = total of 2 years in jail. <- Both cooperate, least time in jail
Anything else is a total of 3 (or 4!) years in jail.

Others argued that it was the average number of years with regard to one person:
Cooperate: 1 year or 3 years = average of 2 years
Betray: 2 years or 0 years = average of 1 year <--Betray and you either walk free or 2 years, disregarding the other guy.

I guess we've seen it time and time again that with these group of players, nobody is going to cooperate.
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RadicalFuzz

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Re: JTM Arena II: Transformers - Sponsor Lounge
« Reply #197 on: April 01, 2015, 11:35:07 am »
If you're looking at it in this context, a forum game with no long-term ramifications and from the point of view of a player, then it's pretty unlikely that most people would pick to cooperate. From their personal point of view, 2 years or 0 years is better than 1 years or 3 years when the result doesn't matter after 2 weeks.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 11:57:48 am by RadicalFuzz »
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