Jesus Toast Mafia

Mafia Games => Mafia General => Topic started by: Missing Person on May 21, 2015, 07:34:55 pm

Title: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Missing Person on May 21, 2015, 07:34:55 pm
By popular demand, and because we often are trying to put together balanced games off of themes where we could get unbalanced fast, here we go.

Let's work together to get our games balanced and figure out if we have feature creep or are putting in the wrong roles for the setup.

Obligatory @ForgeDigger ping because she asked.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Missing Person on May 21, 2015, 07:37:01 pm
I'll post up my Christmas theme later.  It's "ready" as in if I wanted to run it as is, I think it'd be balanced.

HOWEVER, given how this current big game has been such a nightmare, I'm considering scaling it back considerably, and either need to 100% run it as closed format (not every role goes out), or keep it open format but cut out some roles.

I have zero actual role cards finished, but the roles were pretty much finalized.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Bious on May 21, 2015, 08:07:29 pm
I'll post the DR Runback roles once I'm done with them. Still debating Hiyoko's existence though.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Cobalt on May 21, 2015, 11:17:30 pm
Oh man, can I post with my teen wolf game here after the run is finished on GTF? I have some things that need tweaking and some stuff that needs to be overhauled and reworked.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Missing Person on May 21, 2015, 11:22:00 pm
Yup, awesome.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: XthAtGAm3RGuYX on May 22, 2015, 03:23:14 am
I already went over these with MP, but I figure a second opinion wouldnt hurt.

Since I am going to be running Ace Attorney on The Syndicate, I added 4 roles to the game. Dhalia Hawthorne is only possible because I can use sock puppet accounts over there to run my game.

Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
Ability: Paranormal assistance
After 4 mislynches, Phoenix may have Pearl channel Mia Fey and ask her 4 yes or no questions. May not ask if somebody is a Mafia. Further details below.

Ron DeLite: Delusional Fanboy
Ability: Courtroom Distraction
At any point during day phase, Ron may submit "CONFESS" to the GM. This will stop the lynch and advance the game to night phase. Ron has a 50% chance to be declared "NOT GUILTY" and survive confessing, outcome decided byto cointoss. If he is not declared Guilty, the game will still progress to night phase. Ron may only use this ability once.

Mia Fey: Defense Attorney
Ability: Post Mortem observation
Mia Fey is Phoenix's mentor. Can be channeled by a spirit medium like Maya or Pearl to assist Phoenix in court.

Dhalia Hawthorne: Cute faced murderer
Ability: Vengeful spirit.
A random Mafia member will be given the role of Dhalia. That player will not know they are Dhalia. If Dhalia is killed Day 2 and onwards, she will possess a random roleless civ. She can only possess a player if Maya, Phoenix, and Godot were still alive at the time of her death. More details below.

The game also does not have Last Gasps anymore. "Further details below" is stuff that will be explained in notes that wouldnt fit in the rolecard.

Mia Fey is actually me, the GM.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Adam Levine on May 22, 2015, 04:54:20 am
Hey guys, I want to know your opinions on having this role in mafia. Do you think this is an unbalanced ability? This role existed in the most fun mafia game I've ever played (the theme of the game was Supernatural TV series, obviously) and the results of almost every night made all spectators burst into laughter. Granted the player was legendary, so I cannot take that one very good performance as only sample.

Its worth to notice the roles were not disclosed in that game, meaning a sample was given only. The detective was the sample for civs and the godfather role was the sample for mafia.

Here is the role:

(http://i.imgur.com/1dPjw1F.jpg)
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: XthAtGAm3RGuYX on May 22, 2015, 06:05:39 am
Dude that shit is like 6 roles mashed into one. You can't have a bulletproof ability deflector who also isn't revealed when killed the first time.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Adam Levine on May 22, 2015, 06:14:01 am
Dude that shit is like 6 roles mashed into one. You can't have a bulletproof ability deflector who also isn't revealed when killed the first time.

Normally you'd be right, but it was not a "normal" mafia game per say. I suppose you could call it "role madness", most people had something to do at night, or something passive. But overall both sides had equal chance of winning. Also the mafia had bypass bulletproof ability, but it had limited usage.

The protection message said the player was protected at night, but no, his role wasn't revealed.

For fitting into a normal game, I suppose the bulletproof can be taken from the role, only the first part remaining. Not to mention the ability has potential to completely ruin Civilian actions too and he only wins if the Civilians win.

Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Bious on May 22, 2015, 07:48:20 am
So in my next game there's this lovely piece of Kromobait:

Another DR one. This one is a good one.






Hiyoko

(http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/danganronpa/images/0/02/Saionji.png/revision/latest?cb=20130801211736)
Civ: If you are lynched the Mafia does not get a night kill the following night.

Mafia: You absolutely cannot be lynched. Period. Auto-loss if you are the last Mafia.

Thoughts (besides MP)?
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: descuffphoenix on May 22, 2015, 08:47:45 am
Is there any good way to handle a sort of immortal/dying-like mafia? The idea I have is a mafia who win condition is either winning with mafia or dying at night.

The first ability is being killed at night which would allow him to win.

The second ability will prevent his lynch only once, but he get revealed as a mafia but he can no longer communicate with them. Also it would negate the first ability.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on May 22, 2015, 01:24:37 pm
So in my next game there's this lovely piece of Kromobait:

Thoughts (besides MP)?

Her Mafia ability is one of those ones that sounds OP just by looking at it, but in practice it'll probably be fine. There might need to be a Civ Vigi role with a semi-bad Mafia ability, so Mafia has to choose between making Hiyoko vulnerable and taking a better ability.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Pimp Willy on May 22, 2015, 02:16:23 pm
Yeah, I mean, her mafia power seems reasonable. Yeah, they don't die, but you know they're mafia so then its just an extra vote for the mafia and 1 person closer to parity.

Its almost better to take her so you dont have to deal with her civ ability than to get her mafia ability though lol
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Bious on May 22, 2015, 02:53:30 pm
Yeah, I mean, her mafia power seems reasonable. Yeah, they don't die, but you know they're mafia so then its just an extra vote for the mafia and 1 person closer to parity.

Its almost better to take her so you dont have to deal with her civ ability than to get her mafia ability though lol

That's the main thing I'm afraid of really: her being the Vergil to many a team.

Speaking of DR...

Roles that stayed the same so far (So Far):

Makoto
Hinata
Nekomaru (MP)
Sonia (Haha Alpha)


Speaking of staying the same...

Kigiri (May Alter):

Civ: Normal detective.
Mafia: Choose a player at night. You will watch over this player. If they make any actions or have any actions used on them you will be notified of them.

Sidenote: If Kigiri is Mafia Chiaki is automatically made the UC and rendered unrecruitable.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Cobalt on May 23, 2015, 01:29:37 am
Alright, so my Teen Wolf game just ended and here are some things I'd like to get tweaking.

Firstly, here is the list of roles as they were presented before cards went out:


Civilian:

Sheriff Stilinski
Detective: You may target one player each night. Your result will be given as innocent, guilty, or inconclusive.

Melissa McCall
Medic: You may target one player each night. That player will be protected from all kill attempts that phase. You may not target yourself.

Scott McCall
True Alpha: You have one stock each of investigation, protection, and vigilantism. You may target one player with one stock during the night phase.

Stiles Stilinski
Lover: You are informed of Derek Hale's identity and have a separate conversation from the main game. If Derek is killed at night, you will die instead.

Derek Hale
Lover: You are informed of Stiles Stilinski's identity and have a separate conversation from the main game. If Stiles is killed at night, you die instead.

Allison Argent
Huntress: Your ability becomes active once Kate Argent makes a kill, otherwise by night three. You may target one player for a kill attempt at night. There will be a one phase cooldown in between your kills.

Lydia Martin
Banshee: You may target one player each night. You will be informed who, if anyone, targeted that player. If that player is Jackson Whittemore, they convert to civilian. In addition, you will be notified by the GM if more than two kills are submitted at the night phase, and may submit a "scream" to the GM to be published before the end of the night phase.

Isaac Lahey
Thief: You may target one player each night. If that player dies, you gain the use of their ability. This will only work on civilians, with the exceptions of Parrish, Morrell, Braeden, and Ethan.

Erica Reyes
Bombshell: Your votes count three times during the day phase. Extra votes will not be shown.

Vernon Boyd
Gentle Giant: The first kill attempt submitted against you will fail.

Cora Hale
Innocent: If you are lynched during the day, the lynch will fail, and your role will be revealed.

Danny Mahealani
Hacker: You may target one player each night. If that player is Sheriff, Lydia, or Chris Argent, you will receive a list of all results that player has gotten in the game. You may not target the same player twice.

Kira Yukimura
Nine Tails: You are invulnerable to kill attempts made on you during the night phase.

Malia Tate
Deficiency: Votes you cast during the day phase don't count.

Chris Argent
Tracker: You may target one player each night phase. You will be informed who, if anyone, that player targeted that night.

Jordan Parrish
Phoenix: If you are targeted by Kate Argent, you will survive arson, and kill her.

Ethan
Twin: You may target one player each night. If you successfully target Aiden, his mafia player will die, and his card will merge with yours. You will gain a new card, as the Twins, and you will also gain Aiden’s secondary ability.

Marin Morrell
Ulterior Motives: You may target one player each night and reveal yourself to them. If that player is Braeden, you gain one kill stock for use through her. If that player is another civilian, your identity will be revealed to them. If that player is Deucalion, you will be converted to mafia. If that player is any other mafia, you will die.

Braeden
Mercenary: If contracted by Morrell, you gain one kill stock for use on Morrell's target, and one kill stock of your own.


Third Party:

Alan Deaton
Emissary: You are informed of Scott McCall's identity. You only win if he survives until the end of the game.

Jackson Whittemore
Kanima: You are a traitor. If anyone targets you, they will be paralyzed and lose their ability for one phase, with the exception of Lydia and Danny. If Lydia targets you, you convert to civilian. If you are not converted by night three, Matt Daehler gains one kill stock for use through you. You only win if you are converted, and you no longer paralyze civilians once you have converted.

Peter Hale
Survivor: You only win the game if you are alive at the end of it.

Kate Argent
Arsonist: You may target one player at night. That player will be killed. You only win if Derek, Cora, and Peter Hale are all dead, and if you killed at least one of them. You have one night phase of cooldown in between your kills.


Mafia:

Deucalion
Demon Wolf: You are responsible for submitting the night kill for the mafia. In lieu of this, you may send in a guess of three players and their roles. If you guess all three correctly, all three will die regardless of their abilities. If you do not guess correctly, you will die. This ability will be passed down to a mafia of your choice if you die.

Kali
Enforcer: You may target one player each night. That player's ability will be nullified for that phase.

Ennis
Strongman: You may target the mafia kill target at night. The target will die regardless of any resistances or immunities to night kill, including medic targets, Boyd, and Kira. This ability may only be used twice.

Jennifer Blake
Darach: Using dark druid magic, you may silence one player each night. That player will be unable to post in the following day phase. If the Sheriff investigates you, he will receive an innocent result.

Matt Daehler
Handler: You know the identity of Jackson Whittemore. If he has not been targeted by Lydia Martin and converted to civilian by night three, you gain one kill stock for use through your kanima.

Gerard Argent
Influence: You may target one player each night. If that player is Allison Argent, you may redirect her kill target to a target of your choice.

Aiden
Twin: You may target one player each night. If that player is Ethan, he will be converted to mafia. In addition, if you are lynched during the day, the first player that voted for you will die. If you are killed at night, whoever killed you dies as well.

And priority list:

Lover (sacrifice) > Strongman > Enforce > Medic > Thief > Triple Kill > Nine Tails > Gentle Giant > Night Kill > Kanima > Influence > Twin (Aiden) > Huntress > Phoenix > Arsonist > Handler (kill stock) > Mercenary (kill stock) > Ulterior Motives (kill stock) > Darach > Detective > Banshee > Tracker > Hacker

In the first few phases, the faults in Jackson's role became painfully obvious. The mafia was unable to use Jackson in a triple kill, as they were handed his identity from the beginning of the game to Matt Daehler. Thus, there was nothing stopping him from simply claiming and converting to civilian, thus winning the game. Our Jackson soft claimed but didn't get picked up, and then finally got converted night three after the mafia received the kill stock.

One thing that was apparent was that Jackson needed to be much more of a third party character. He was the traitor, except due to plot reasons of the show he didn't kill, he only paralyzed. (The kanima paralyzes but of course can kill, hence the kill stock to Matt who controlled it.) His win condition was much too restricting - after some discussion postgame, here are the alternatives that I can think of.

I could make Jackson third party paralyzing traitor. He still becomes civilian if Lydia targets him, but that is not his win condition. He wins with the mafia if he remains unconverted, and he wins with the civilians after he gets converted. I'm also considering not giving the mafia his identity at all - I can't remember whether or not Matt Daehler actually knew it was Jackson behind the kanima in the show, I have to go back and look at that. This would discourage him role claiming, too.

Role claiming is what really wrecked the civilians in that game - they were off to an insane start, but I'll also describe how the mafia won. The SK suicide bombed on Aiden in the first night phase, taking out the SK and the T4T mafia. Night one, the JOAT got killed and the watcher (Lydia, who can also scream) got enforced. Three people died that night and there was no scream, which the mafia didn't notice until later. Day two, the enforcer was lynched, and on night two, both the watcher and the tracker witnessed the silencer / the silencer's target. Night two, @Augustus was the kill target, but he was one of the lovers - the autosacrifice is at the top of the priority list, which means he survived and his lover died instead. Day three the silencer edited a post again and got DQ'd and another civ was lynched anyway. Night three was a huge blow, as the triple kill went off, killing the Sheriff, Lydia, the Emissary who lost already, and Augustus, the other lover with a strongman. Day four there was a last minute fire drill onto the strong man. So the civs had taken out a good amount of mafia, more than half the team, but they still wound up winning thanks to Deucalion's player being a bona fide fucking genius. They figured out another triple kill and knocked the medic and the vigi out too after successfully redirecting her kill the night before, and then on the last day phase it was 6-3. Morrell was still in the game and Braeden had been lynched the day before. Given that Morrell can win with whatever side she's on, Deucalion tied the vote last minute and there was no lynch, calling Morrell to flip for the win. Morrell flipped, 5-4, they killed Jackson finally, and it was 4-4. Mafia won.

With that last particular series of events, it became blatantly clear that Morrell was in EVERY essence a third party character. I wanted to make her third party, but it seemed to be favoring the mafia too much already, but it's been made clear through gameplay that Morrell needs to be third party. The proposed change that I came up with is this: Morrell is third party and reveals herself to her target. If she finds Braeden first, she becomes civilian and they both gain their kill stocks (Morrell can only use hers if Braeden is alive because mercenary), but if she finds Deucalion, she flips mafia and may still hunt for Braeden for the stock. I'm removing the stipulation that if she finds another mafia than Deucalion she dies, but I'm thinking that she might need to be able to convert with more than just Deucalion for it to be a decent chance of happening without a role claim. Thoughts on this as well?

While we're on the subject of third parties, Kate's win condition is near impossible. I really need to tweak it but I don't know where to begin yet.

I'm making Deaton a civilian, and also giving Scott his identity. That way the two know each other but can't speak privately, and can work so that Deaton can keep Scott alive as long as possible. Deaton has a separate win condition but is still entirely civilian based, so I'm definitely gonna make him blue.

Malia Tate's ability was a jab at the character herself, she was brought into the show haphazardly to fill SEVERAL loose plotlines left by other characters leaving the show, and also to get in the way of the popular fan pairing of Stiles and Derek. It was forced, the character wasn't enjoyable, and I wanted to like the character for her sake but simply couldn't because of the way it was executed. Also she was stuck in her coyote form since she was 8 years old so it really squicked me out that a girl who was mentally an 8 year old was making out with Stiles in the basement of a mental institution. Like no. Sorry.

Continuing on that, I made her useless. Instead, I'm thinking about making her vote a SUBTRACTION vote. We almost saw the use of Erica in phase one, actually - if two less people fire drilled onto the lynch target, he would have had fewer public votes but still died because of Erica. I thought about giving Malia a true deficiency and sapping even more away from her voting power to give it much more of a strategic spin.

I didn't know what to do with Boyd's role so I gave him a one shot bulletproof, but we already have a permanent bulletproof in the form of Kira Yukimura. In late game in my game they were both actually still alive which was actually a big potential monkey wrench for the mafia, but thankfully Jackson was still around for the final night kill to end the game after Morrell flipped. Otherwise they risked 1/3 of the targets failing, which would have ended them. I don't think both should have bulletproofs, so I may need another stock role to use on either Boyd or Kira.

If anyone here actually KNOWS the show, that would be REALLY helpful - a lot of the game mechanics are actually based off the relationships in the show and as such knowledge on that could help with ideas to change up some abilities.

One more thing, third parties counted as civilian for parity but that allowed a claimed survivor to hang around in the game until he got triple killed. Not sure how I felt about that, the civs had no reason to actually lynch him.

All thoughts and ideas are welcome, I'd love to run this role madness game here soon but it needs a little work first. The first run was actually really fun, it was the longest mafia thread in GTF history in terms of page/post count, and my writeups were wicked, even though I still owe like 6 of them. :rip:

Links are on the first post if anyone wants to see writeups/phase results or read the gameplay. Note that you can't view avatars while a guest, as TGG noticed once when he thought we had no avatars. :skull:

http://www.gayteenforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=69007
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Synonym on May 23, 2015, 02:40:46 am
I'd like to suggest we try and balance the roles in Pimp Willy's "Choose your own role adventure" game.

 Skizzzgasm
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Aidebit on May 23, 2015, 02:49:33 am
We could do it Whispers style, ten words in order to describe a role.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Pimp Willy on May 23, 2015, 01:53:22 pm
You could always submit a role, and then all the roles are randomized? lol
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: XthAtGAm3RGuYX on May 23, 2015, 02:38:52 pm
Normally you'd be right, but it was not a "normal" mafia game per say. I suppose you could call it "role madness", most people had something to do at night, or something passive. But overall both sides had equal chance of winning. Also the mafia had bypass bulletproof ability, but it had limited usage.

The protection message said the player was protected at night, but no, his role wasn't revealed.

For fitting into a normal game, I suppose the bulletproof can be taken from the role, only the first part remaining. Not to mention the ability has potential to completely ruin Civilian actions too and he only wins if the Civilians win.

For the record, if a third party wins when civs do, its not a third party. It's a civ power role. You could maybe balance that with, "If this third party role dies, they lose regardless of if civs win or not"
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Cobalt on May 23, 2015, 06:15:25 pm
Nobody wants to tackle my game? :rip:
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Synonym on May 23, 2015, 06:38:37 pm
Quote
Lydia Martin
Banshee: You may target one player each night. You will be informed who, if anyone, targeted that player. If that player is Jackson Whittemore, they convert to civilian. In addition, you will be notified by the GM if more than two kills are submitted at the night phase, and may submit a "scream" to the GM to be published before the end of the night phase.

Broken as fuck. Tracker + Seer + some advance warning system bullshit with no stocks. Even with Banshee not being told the identity of the kill targets it's still too much in one role.

Quote
Marin Morrell
Ulterior Motives: You may target one player each night and reveal yourself to them. If that player is Braeden, you gain one kill stock for use through her. If that player is another civilian, your identity will be revealed to them. If that player is Deucalion, you will be converted to mafia. If that player is any other mafia, you will die.

This needs a clause  that you can't target Braeden multiple times.

I also don't like the twins roles but haven't got any better suggestions for them.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Cobalt on May 23, 2015, 07:28:35 pm
Broken as fuck. Tracker + Seer + some advance warning system bullshit with no stocks. Even with Banshee not being told the identity of the kill targets it's still too much in one role. It's a watcher btw, there's a tracker and a watcher in this game.

This needs a clause  that you can't target Braeden multiple times.

I also don't like the twins roles but haven't got any better suggestions for them.
The banshee screams are actually written by me (the GM) in the form of a writeup with only a little bit of Lydia's input as to what they want in them. They're trippy as fuck, and it actually turned out really well.

http://www.gayteenforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=69007&start=1680#p2336746

Lydia wanted it to be known that they had witnessed the silencing the night prior, before the silencer DQ'd during the phase after they almost got lynched, so that was the part about vonvorto in the beginning. The rest actually hinted at which characters were dying but it was so vague it was difficult to pick up on.

I actually really liked that mechanic.

And yes, Braeden can't be targeted multiple times, the stocks only work once.

I mainly wanted to address Jackson, Kate, Malia, and Boyd.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Bious on May 23, 2015, 07:34:24 pm
This DR role I specially altered.

Junko:

Civ: At the end of night 3 your identity will be revealed to the thread.

Mafia: If you are not the Valedictorian you are automatically made it. If you die at any time you can change any mafia member into a clone of yourself without this ability.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ForgeDigger on May 29, 2015, 01:45:45 pm
Okay guys, really want your input on these. Do you think it's balanced enough?

Mirai Nikki Draft 1:
Some things to note about this game before I get to the role cards:
-Players may send "text messages" between each other. Right now, I'm thinking that each player may send a max of 5 text messages throughout the game with 150 characters or less each because their cell phone service sucks or some shit. Players are allowed to create the PM their selves, as long as the GM is included in the conversation.
-I'm still unsure how exactly I want it to work out, but I'm thinking that players will first be assigned roles, and then roles will randomly be chosen as civilian or mafia. There will be 5 mafia (max of 6 if 8th's recruited). What do you guys think on this front?
-There will be no last gasps.

Here's the role cards:
(http://i.imgur.com/BYPeuu0.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/I9wmi45.png)(http://i.imgur.com/lk5ue0E.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/Hcnp7mq.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/Yl6zDJo.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/JhZjwSm.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/al46mbk.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/v85G8dK.png)(http://i.imgur.com/z6YiyNK.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/ooSwM7C.png)(http://i.imgur.com/gJZBjpQ.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/u90Z9Y3.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/KpzSSXH.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/hU03C8d.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/CKldOGh.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/FTBv8ZA.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/k1YMuN5.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/Y4HmdV1.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/34yWAj4.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/50datjZ.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/fXZDWe8.png)
If it isn't obvious, this is a role madness game. I know it's a lot to take in, but any input you guys have would be greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on May 29, 2015, 04:19:37 pm
Spelling errors make me cry. Having half of the images tinted blue and the other half not also makes me cry.

(http://i.imgur.com/k1YMuN5.png)

So if Fourth is Civilian, Nishijima is roleless? I think being roleless is a pretty good indication of whether or not Fourth is Mafia.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: RadicalFuzz on May 29, 2015, 04:34:37 pm
I'm assuming that Nishijima will be acting as Medic regardless, but will only be talking to a wall if 4th was Civ.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on May 29, 2015, 04:37:02 pm
Ah, so he'll send through actions regardless of Fourth's allegiance, but it's just a placebo protection unless Fourth is Mafia.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ForgeDigger on May 29, 2015, 05:43:41 pm
Right. Nishijima would send a target in each night as though he were medic regardless if he were medic or not.

Yeah, I'm still working on the actual role cards. I had this idea to make the pictures blue if they were civilian and red if they're mafia (as the 2 openings use either color pretty much exclusively), but the secondary characters are non-existent in either opening, and seventh only gets a clear shot in the red op. So I think I'm gonna scrap that idea. I'm open to suggestions, though.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: XthAtGAm3RGuYX on May 30, 2015, 02:14:22 pm
Anybody here that would be interested in co-hosting Ace Attorney with me if I get to run it on the syndicate? I'd need a co-host because the phase times and my work schedule would inevitably create times where Im not around to post results.

Requirements:
-Reading and understanding ALL of the rules and role quirks prior to game start
-Setting your av on the site to the Canadian Judge.

You probably wont have to do any writeups as I plan to do all of them.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: jasonC on May 30, 2015, 04:45:56 pm
TGG I can do it as long as its not within the next month.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: XthAtGAm3RGuYX on May 30, 2015, 04:47:58 pm
TGG I can do it as long as its not within the next month.
The poll doesnt even start until June 5th I think or around then. I dont know how long the poll itself is though
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Missing Person on June 01, 2015, 11:32:04 pm
I'm wanting to eventually have a runback of EOW, but it needs overhauled.  It was heavily civ favored when it was ran before.  I'll also need to change some of the role names just because some of these people are irrelevant on JTM.

(http://i.imgur.com/oP7qaTB.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/EBpke0T.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/sBda9q9.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/o63mldn.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/SGpCeY3.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/RXuqWpj.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/fQ376JV.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/XKwwFl4.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/rkKRhts.png)


(http://i.imgur.com/1JJiLmB.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/KqaCTE5.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/N71c2mY.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/3eFPRjH.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/zAG79IB.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/WOHg87E.png)

Probably getting rid of the <RadicalFuzz> role because it actually wasn't a great role.  I feel like a Forger is necessary.  I feel like the <Missing Person> role needs to be redesigned or done away with.  I'm also considering putting stocks on <SoVi3t> (And changing the name.)

It might be worth it to scrap what I have and start fresh with some of the crazy shit that has happened on JTM.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on June 02, 2015, 12:24:56 am
It might be worth it to scrap what I have and start fresh with some of the crazy shit that has happened on JTM.

Yep. Don't have players based on roles, have roles based on players.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Missing Person on June 02, 2015, 12:28:05 am
Godots must be a role.

Я Рон Бургундии?

Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Cobalt on June 02, 2015, 12:37:11 am
Make a Cobalt role. :eli:
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Cobalt on June 02, 2015, 12:37:34 am
Hey Alpha wanna tackle my game with me? I still haven't worked all the kinks out.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on June 02, 2015, 12:46:14 am
Hey Alpha wanna tackle my game with me? I still haven't worked all the kinks out.

That's so much reading tho.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: descuffphoenix on June 02, 2015, 12:52:38 am
Phoenix Role. Skizzzgasm
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Cobalt on June 02, 2015, 12:55:59 am
That's so much reading tho.
Pls? :3

Phoenix Role. Skizzzgasm
What about it?
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Missing Person on June 02, 2015, 01:08:46 am
Make a Cobalt role. :eli:

Cobalt: Pissy Player
Yells at everyone Day 1 then subs out.

kappa
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Cobalt on June 02, 2015, 01:09:12 am
Cobalt: Pissy Player
Yells at everyone Day 1 then subs out.

kappa
Pls let that not be what I'm remembered as
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Missing Person on June 02, 2015, 01:15:22 am
Pls let that not be what I'm remembered as

I highly doubt it will be.

People would probably move on from HUNKgate if I wouldn't bring it up to shame myself.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on June 02, 2015, 01:29:38 am
Pls? :3

-So Arsonist is an SK with a 1 phase cooldown between kills? I'm used to the Town of Salem variant where you each Night, you either douse a person or you choose to ignite all doused players.
-Having the 3 role guess for Mafia helps with the amount of roles Civs have, but dying if you guess wrong is too much. Losing out on a kill is punishment enough.
-There's a lot of roles specific to another role. I'm guessing they didn't see much use.

I got distracted reading halfway through that because I couldn't keep up with which names were associated with which roles.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on June 02, 2015, 01:32:25 am
When I say I got distracted, I mean I started brainstorming a Revenge Mafia game. The game would be heavily Civ-favoured, with Amanda being the most OP role JTM's ever seen, but if Amanda dies, Civs instantly lose.

Might come back to this idea one day when I've finished Virtue's Last Reward and Smash Bros.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Synonym on June 02, 2015, 01:48:42 am
The occultist role is obviously getting renamed to the hail Satan.

And I think the reason it ended up being civ favoured was because I was civilian.

Tooooooooooooooooooggggggsssssssssss.

Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Missing Person on June 02, 2015, 01:51:07 am
The occultist role is obviously getting renamed to the hail Satan.

And I think the reason it ended up being civ favoured was because I was civilian.

Tooooooooooooooooooggggggsssssssssss.



HIDE YO KIDS, HIDE YO WIFE
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Cobalt on June 02, 2015, 01:59:36 am
-So Arsonist is an SK with a 1 phase cooldown between kills? I'm used to the Town of Salem variant where you each Night, you either douse a person or you choose to ignite all doused players.
-Having the 3 role guess for Mafia helps with the amount of roles Civs have, but dying if you guess wrong is too much. Losing out on a kill is punishment enough.
-There's a lot of roles specific to another role. I'm guessing they didn't see much use.

I got distracted reading halfway through that because I couldn't keep up with which names were associated with which roles.
Yeah, she's not actually an arsonist role, but her character in the show set Derek Hale's house on fire when he was a teenager with 95% of his family still inside it.

If you take away the death penalty from triple kill there's no reason for them not to guess until they get it right. They have to do the deduction and make sure. They never sent in a wrong attempt so I doubt it would be an issue. Plus it presents a good opportunity for civs to trick the mafia into killing one of their own.

Morrell wasn't able to target Braeden and Aiden + the SK died night one so the other twin and the phoenix were pretty much useless. I was hoping to see more interesting stuff there.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on June 02, 2015, 03:39:17 am
If you take away the death penalty from triple kill there's no reason for them not to guess until they get it right. They have to do the deduction and make sure. They never sent in a wrong attempt so I doubt it would be an issue. Plus it presents a good opportunity for civs to trick the mafia into killing one of their own.

I mean make it so that they can either kill one player OR guess 3 players. The reason for them not to guess is that if they're wrong, they miss out on their Night kill.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ForgeDigger on June 02, 2015, 04:56:19 am
@Cobalt what do you think of my game?
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Bious on June 02, 2015, 05:55:42 am
The occultist role is obviously getting renamed to the hail Satan.

And I think the reason it ended up being civ favoured was because I was civilian.

Tooooooooooooooooooggggggsssssssssss.

If I recall correctly we were killing you Night 1.
Somehow that became Chief.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: jasonC on June 02, 2015, 06:54:17 am
That's so much reading tho.

You received a well-deserved Toogs for this post.   Skizzzgasm
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: RadicalFuzz on June 02, 2015, 08:45:04 am
I still feel bad for Forge after what happened in EOW. Pimp gets my role, picks her, and she's Medic. Night 1 kill.

You could make <MP> be the only one to receive a Last Gasp. Or, upon time of their death, they receive one random UC result to put in a LG, to alleviate some pressure from the UC without increasing the numbers. It also directs the role to die in midgame before UC claims for maximum effectiveness.

I don't like the concept of "text messages" in your game Forge. I think that should remain as a one-time ability through the GM (re: Marvel Avengers) or should stay in Arena entirely. It introduces private information to every player in the game. Another issue is the two roles that could be "peeking" at the texts, 10th and 11th. 11th, even with his 25% chance, gets a crazy amount of information out of seeing that Fuzz sent a text to Alpha. It tells him they're not both Mafia, and they're not Lovers, before even considering the content of the message. Also there's no way in hell that you want to RNG every time someone sends a text, it's way too much to deal with, similar to Fire Emblem.

For the roles, I think it's interesting to have a Civilian-based Poisoner and the guilt-based Vigi. He can act as a nighttime lynch, to eliminate anyone who seems extremely suspicious due to end of day results.

For Mao, the "if Hinata would die you die in her place", does Mao know Hinata's identity? Also, the concept of having that cleared civilian in Hinata (once the player should die but Mao dies instead that's a confirm) seems lacking. There's no interaction possible, no way to play the role objectively better. Hinata would die, then Mao dies, and Hinata is civ. I really like Hinata's ability, though, if she's civilian, because of the risks involved. 10th is probably the best candidate for the extra stock if he's civilian, but there's no way for civ-Hinata to know that.

One last thing, if the Mafia are going to be randomly generated after everyone gets their roles then I think it's fine as is. But if one player gets their role and gets to recruit 4 others, there are some pretty ridiculous combinations. Mafia Hinata plus 11th or 6th is a ton of information, while 3rd with 4 stocks denies information for the first 4 night phases or Nishijimi with 3 stocks can effectively nullify civilian role-claiming.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Missing Person on June 02, 2015, 08:52:37 am
She was night one enforce, night two kill.

Я Рон Бургундии?

Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Bious on June 06, 2015, 03:35:26 pm
Whoops! I quoted instead of modify!

Well here I will talk about the changes to DR. First off, you may notice a lot of nerfs compared to the other one. I didn't exactly gimp everyone, but some got beat harrrrd.

Secondly, the Val gimmick has changed. As long as they are alive the trip kill can be pulled off infinitely, but there is a cooldown.

Third the Mafia ranks have increased by 1. 32 players total, 6 (or 7) Mafia.

Fourth, night priority has changed greatly.

Finally, no gasps.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Bious on June 06, 2015, 03:44:09 pm
Another new DR role:

Soda:

Civ/Mafia- Vote rigging: Your votes count two times instead of one. Once per game you may amp it up to three for a phase. This is not reflected in the tally.

And another:

Akane Owagi:

Civ: Acrobatic Assist- Pick a player at night. If they use a night action it's priority will be increased by one in the order list.

Mafia: Breast Demon- Pick a target at night. If they use an action on you they will be killed.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Bious on June 09, 2015, 10:21:22 am
@✰Alpha✰ can you show me what Godot used to make the DR 1 cards? I'll reveal Sonia's card if you do...
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on June 09, 2015, 10:33:54 am
@✰Alpha✰ can you show me what Godot used to make the DR 1 cards? I'll reveal Sonia's card if you do...

He never contacted me about the cards, but it looks like he used pictures found throughout the Danganronpa Wiki:

http://danganronpa.wikia.com/wiki/File:Kyouko_introduction_anime_EP1_HQ.png

Those are images from the anime though. The versions that use the in-game sprites can be found here:

http://img.neoseeker.com/v_image.php?type=news&articleid=24027&image=7
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Bious on June 09, 2015, 10:40:42 am
Yeah, I may use either the sprites or official artwork and make it work.

I'll post Sonia and someone else later.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on June 09, 2015, 10:51:48 am
Updated the link so that nobody else ever has to look at that abysmal blog ever again.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Cobalt on June 14, 2015, 10:58:56 pm
@ForgeDigger - Sent you a PM regarding your game like we talked about.

Now is anyone gonna help me with Teen Wolf? Now's your chance to give input on what you wanna see before I run it here. :eli:

@Missing Person @✰Alpha✰ @Jan @descuffphoenix
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: XthAtGAm3RGuYX on June 20, 2015, 10:33:47 am
I want to ask you guys about a mechanic and your opinions on it.

Previous GM's here, how do you feel about
1. Player A gets lynched/nightkilled
2. Later on, Player B requests to sub out of the game
3. Because you have no subs, replace Player B with Player A who was previously already in the game and died

????????
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: DrWilgy on June 20, 2015, 10:56:31 am
I see some immediate problems. I havent GM'd but the things that I see are:
1. You can't let someone who was a power role sub in.
2. You can't allow the sub into the loser's lounge.
3. How do you score someone who changes to another team? You can either force the sub onto their previous team which would confirm thier alignment, or you may accidentally give them alternate incentive that may affect the team they join.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: XthAtGAm3RGuYX on June 20, 2015, 11:36:13 am
I see some immediate problems. I havent GM'd but the things that I see are:
1. You can't let someone who was a power role sub in.
2. You can't allow the sub into the loser's lounge.
3. How do you score someone who changes to another team? You can either force the sub onto their previous team which would confirm thier alignment, or you may accidentally give them alternate incentive that may affect the team they join.

I'm not asking because it's something I want to do. I am vehemently opposed to it as a matter of fact. I'm asking because it's something people do elsewhere and I'm wondering if I'm crazy for being the only one there against that mechanic.

I really dont like it because you can kill somebody off as a maifa, then they sub in later for somebody else. Ya know half the purpose of having a night kill is to get rid of people permanently. A resurrection condition is one thing, but just coming in on a second life for free is completely fucked up to me. So you get rid of a problem player or somebody that leads discussion right? Think the problem is gone? Lol nope. They back in the game now. You essentially waste a nightkill at that point because the person they subbed in for was probably inactive in the first place. This has only happened in Bible mafia for me and I dont know if it gets done for members of the mafia, but it seems way more civ sided than anything.

Plus its just wrong that you can get killed, observe the game without worry of playing the game, and then come in with fresh eyes. Plus you get ANOTHER chance to win. Whoever gets to sub in after death essentially is just a bulletproof role. Die once and then come back amongst the living.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Synonym on June 20, 2015, 01:56:41 pm
I would abuse the fuck out of that mechanic, so that probably means it's a bad idea.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: DrWilgy on June 20, 2015, 02:09:47 pm
Ok, we are in agreement. Subbing like that is retarded. I'm really thinking that I won't allow subs in games that I run.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Augustus on June 20, 2015, 06:22:33 pm
Yeah, I was checking out some of their past games and saw that was a thing they did. It blew my mind because it's definitely not something you should do (inb4 reminder of bad Augustus GM'ing).

So you get rid of a problem player or somebody that leads discussion right? Think the problem is gone? Lol nope. They back in the game now. You essentially waste a nightkill at that point because the person they subbed in for was probably inactive in the first place.

This is pretty much the same argument I had given out when a dead player had wanted to sub in for a no-show during a game I ran on the forbidden forum. It is a horrible, horrible thing to approve.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: XthAtGAm3RGuYX on June 20, 2015, 08:31:46 pm
Oh yeah, in those same games, inscribed don't get mod killed at all.

In bible Mafia we killed a louder person. He game back into the game for player who had been inactive for 12 day/night cycles. That same player? He's the one who had the passive ability of skipping night phase if a Mafia gets lynched.

I wish I had the talent to make that shit up.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: fingersplints on June 22, 2015, 06:26:29 pm
I see some immediate problems. I havent GM'd but the things that I see are:
1. You can't let someone who was a power role sub in.
2. You can't allow the sub into the loser's lounge.
3. How do you score someone who changes to another team?
You can either force the sub onto their previous team which would confirm thier alignment, or you may accidentally give them alternate incentive that may affect the team they join.

There isn't a loser's lounge or a scoring system.

I don't personally agree with the amount of replacing that has had to be going on, but I also feel that modkilling ruins game balance as well since power roles can just be wasted then too.

I have hosted a bunch and have never had to use a dead player, but I can understand the urge to do so. I used to be more opposed to the notion as well until I once got the opportunity to fill in for a friend and mafia teammate who needed to drop out for RL reasons. (something to keep in mind is that roles are not revealed in NKs like they are here, so that allowed this to be possible.)
I am also a firm believer that the host should be allowed to set the rules.

Perhaps the bigger issue that should be addressed is the amount of people needing to be replaced. Hosts already have a lot to do in a game they shouldn't have to find 10 replacements.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: RadicalFuzz on June 23, 2015, 06:40:46 am
The GM should definitely have final say on the rules, that's not the question. The question is what is the ideal solution to any given problem. Lots of people needing to be replaced? I don't think allowing dead players to fill in is a good answer, even in a format where roles aren't revealed on death. Mafia kills and, to an extent, lynches are often based on the player. Want to make the thread quiet down? Kill the big posters. Want to make everyone doubt each other? Leave all the paranoid people alive. When you have the possibility of someone you actively killed coming back into the game a phase later dependent entirely on someone else's inability to assess whether they have the time to play and/or ability to not DQ themselves, then that's not an environment that I think is good. A smaller concern, also, is power roles having more information than they should when being brought back into the game. What if UC was killed night 2 but hadn't made his results public? He can't forget the results from night 1 (and 2 depending on order of operations), you can't just tell him he can't use that information that he has. Any games with a redirection or confusion-based role you have the same problem. if Witch targets Vigi onto himself (and roles aren't revealed on death) then the Vigi knows he was targeted while the public doesn't. If that player comes back into the game he has access to more information than was made public.

As for the core issue of having too many people drop out, I think we need to be clear with our time expectations and be more willing to not replace people past a certain point. A lot of what we had last game was people dropping out and being replaced by people who were dropping out. The responsibility to play needs to go with the person when they sign up or sub, and some of the players we've had sub recently don't take accountability for that. I'm talking specifically about players that sub and then don't do anything and get replaced or DQ'd themselves, not players that have difficulty as they play because their sub-ee was suspicious.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on June 24, 2015, 07:47:26 am
So here's a role card that didn't make it into the Revenge game.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/45366695/Revenge/Sammy%20Scrapped.png)

I ended up scrapping it because I wanted Sammy to be a fun third-party character, not a role with lots of yomi. The final version of Sammy ended up being a lot less complicated and more of an enjoyable to play as role, while still maintaining a fairly difficult third-party win condition.

Just some insight into my design thought process.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Cobalt on June 24, 2015, 12:23:59 pm
The GM should definitely have final say on the rules, that's not the question. The question is what is the ideal solution to any given problem. Lots of people needing to be replaced? I don't think allowing dead players to fill in is a good answer, even in a format where roles aren't revealed on death. Mafia kills and, to an extent, lynches are often based on the player. Want to make the thread quiet down? Kill the big posters. Want to make everyone doubt each other? Leave all the paranoid people alive. When you have the possibility of someone you actively killed coming back into the game a phase later dependent entirely on someone else's inability to assess whether they have the time to play and/or ability to not DQ themselves, then that's not an environment that I think is good. A smaller concern, also, is power roles having more information than they should when being brought back into the game. What if UC was killed night 2 but hadn't made his results public? He can't forget the results from night 1 (and 2 depending on order of operations), you can't just tell him he can't use that information that he has. Any games with a redirection or confusion-based role you have the same problem. if Witch targets Vigi onto himself (and roles aren't revealed on death) then the Vigi knows he was targeted while the public doesn't. If that player comes back into the game he has access to more information than was made public.

As for the core issue of having too many people drop out, I think we need to be clear with our time expectations and be more willing to not replace people past a certain point. A lot of what we had last game was people dropping out and being replaced by people who were dropping out. The responsibility to play needs to go with the person when they sign up or sub, and some of the players we've had sub recently don't take accountability for that. I'm talking specifically about players that sub and then don't do anything and get replaced or DQ'd themselves, not players that have difficulty as they play because their sub-ee was suspicious.
My subs have 100% success rate so idk what kind of flops everyone is allowing in here  :votebot:
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Matt on July 26, 2015, 09:04:28 am
I'm about to run this Lewis Carroll mafia on a different forum, and I wanted to run it by everyone here to see if there were any problems I didn't see.  It will be a 20-25 player game.

Roles with abilities:
Alice
Investigate: During Night, you may target one player. You will receive results that will reveal if that player is aligned with the Civilians or the Villains.

The White Rabbit
Protect: During Night, you may target one player. That player will be prevented from dying to kill attempts. You may not target yourself.

The Mad Hatter
Mad as a Hatter: During Night, you may target one player. Your target will be investigated, protected, enforced or killed; the effect is chosen at random. You will be informed of the results if your target is Investigated, but you will otherwise not be informed of the effects of your ability.

The Caterpillar
Wisdom: Your votes will always count three times. The extra votes will not be publicly displayed.

Tweedledum
Twin: You will start the game knowing the identity of your twin - Tweedledee. You are allowed to privately communicate with your twin as long as you both remain alive.

Tweedledee
Twin: You will start the game knowing the identity of your twin - Tweedledum. You are allowed to privately communicate with your twin as long as you both remain alive.

The White Queen
Vigilante: You begin the game with two stocks. During Night, you may use one stock to target a player. That player will be killed that Night. A stock is considered not used if the kill is prevented.

The Cheshire Cat
Survivor: You can only win by remaining alive after either a Civilian or Villain win.
Deceiver: If you are investigated, the player who targeted you will receive a Civilian result.
Elusive: You can only be killed by the mafia night kill and Beware of the Jabberwock.
A Grin without a Cat: During Night, you may submit one anonymous message to be posted publicly at the end of the phase.

The Queen of Hearts
Silence: During Night, you may target one player. That target will not be allowed to post or vote the following Day phase. You cannot target the same player consecutively.

The Red Queen
Enforce: You may target one player each night. That player's ability will be nullified for that phase.

The King of Hearts
Prankster: During Night, you may target one player. If that target is lynched the following day phase, their role and alignment will be revealed as, "The King of Hearts – Villain."
Deceiver: If you are investigated, the player who targeted you will receive a Civilian result.

The Duchess
Retaliate If you are lynched, you may target one of the players that voted for you. That player will be killed.

Jabberwocky
Beware the Jabberwock: During any point in the game, you may sacrifice yourself to kill one player. If used during a Day Phase, the phase will end and result in no lynch. This ability supersedes all others.

Ability priority list:
Mad as a Hatter* > Elusive > Enforce > A Grin without a Cat > Protect > Villain Kill > Vigilante > Deceiver > Investigate > A Grin without a Cat > Silence > Prankster

* Mad as a Hatter’s effect is determined first, and then the effect takes place in the order shown in the list (i.e. Alice’s Investigate and the Mad as a Hatter’s Investigate effect hold the same priority).  Mad as a Hatter’s killing effect is treated as a vigilante stock.

Twin, Survivor, Wisdom, Retaliate and Beware the Jabberwock do not occur in the normal ability priority order, and are not affected by any other ability.  Twin, Survivor and Wisdom are automatic abilities.  Retaliate is only activated when The Duchess is lynched, and can therefore only activate in a Day Phase.  Beware the Jabberwock can be activated at any time in the game prior to Jabberwocky’s death.

I have a few questions:
1. Should I nerf the Cheshire Cat?  I was looking at removing the Elusive ability, but keeping the other three, since Survivors often have a tough time winning on the forum where this game is being hosted.

2. Should I allow role-claiming?  The mafia currently don't have soup, but it's worth noting that the White Queen is the only civilian who can easily prove his or her role.  (The Cheshire Cat can in theory, but people could just as easily regard it as an attempt at framing or a lie)

3. If I allow role-claiming, should I include actual Lewis Carroll characters for all of the other roles without abilities (the Dormouse, Humpty Dumpty, etc.), or should I just have everyone else be a generic "Wonderland Civilian"?  Including actual characters would add more flavor, but might make it harder to give mafia convincing cover roles.  Having everyone without an ability be a "Wonderland Civilian" would remove flavor, but give the mafia perfectly acceptable cover roles.

4. Should I include the following ability, or would it be too broken?
The March Hare
Double-Time: During Night, you may target one player. That player may target an additional player (if their ability allows it) the following Night phase.

5. What are your thoughts on this in general?  Any suggestions, balance issues, etc.?

Thank you for your help!  :)
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on July 26, 2015, 09:57:55 am
Quote
The Mad Hatter
Mad as a Hatter: During Night, you may target one player. Your target will be investigated, protected, enforced or killed; the effect is chosen at random. You will be informed of the results if your target is Investigated, but you will otherwise not be informed of the effects of your ability.

This role just looks straight-up frustrating. The player with this role's only ever going to target their suspects (to either Investigate, Enforce or Kill them), and there's only a 50/50 chance of it rolling an ability that will provide them with information (Investigate/Kill). Sure, there's the opportunity that they'll successfully Enforce them, but there'll most likely be enough doubt for them to just target the same person the following Night trying to get the Investigation/Kill.

I see where you're trying to go with this role, but I think the main problem I have with it is that it has 2 "negative" (Enforce/Kill), 1 "positive" (Protect) and 1 "neutral" (Investigate), so there's no reason not to target a suspect instead of a friendly. If you wanna make this a fully "random" role, make it 2 positive/2 negative or 1 positive/1 negative/2 neutral. Unless you are trying to get them to only target suspects, then I guess it's fine (apart from the thing I mentioned above).

Quote
The Cheshire Cat
Survivor: You can only win by remaining alive after either a Civilian or Villain win.
Deceiver: If you are investigated, the player who targeted you will receive a Civilian result.
Elusive: You can only be killed by the mafia night kill and Beware of the Jabberwock.
A Grin without a Cat: During Night, you may submit one anonymous message to be posted publicly at the end of the phase.

Does the Cheshire Cat count towards the Civ total?
If not, there's no reason for the Cheshire Cat to not RC Night 1, since the Mafia don't benefit from killing them.
If they do, they're still low on the Mafia priority list, since it's essentially confirming themselves as a roleless Civ.
I don't really understand why they're immune to lynches/Vigi, and why they can send a message each Night. Like assuming that they don't RC, what do you think they'd message? They don't care who wins and they don't have any special insight, so I don't see the value in it.

Quote
2. Should I allow role-claiming?  The mafia currently don't have soup, but it's worth noting that the White Queen is the only civilian who can easily prove his or her role.  (The Cheshire Cat can in theory, but people could just as easily regard it as an attempt at framing or a lie)

You can't really ban role-claiming. At the most, people are still gonna be soft claiming. It also prevents the yomi of claiming a role you don't have, which can be tactically used by both Civ and Mafia.

Quote
The March Hare
Double-Time: During Night, you may target one player. That player may target an additional player (if their ability allows it) the following Night phase.

Seems fine, considering that Civs have 4 player targeting abilities and Mafia have 3 (unless Jabberwocky counts). Just be aware that it'd be a fairly easy way for Civs to steamroll if they killed the Red Queen early (with Alice RCing to get double results unless Mafia sacrifices the Jabberwocky). That would depend on the Civ to Mafia ratio, though. Have you decided on your ideal Civ/Mafia count?
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Cobalt on July 26, 2015, 10:39:11 am
Lemme answer your questions first and then I'll move on to my observations.

Cheshire Cat is actually a really good third party but completely lynchproof is OP. Maybe give it one shot lynchproof instead of only being able to die from night kill or Jabberwock. And vigi stocks should be able to kill it. So a small nerf is in order.

Disallow role claiming, allow ability claiming. Someone can say "I'm the UC / detective" but not "I'm Alice." This way you can give the roleless civs all unique role cards as you asked, because mafia should be able to claim roleless civ without worrying about someone counterclaiming a random Lewis Carroll character. They can't claim their roleless civ character but they can claim roleless civ. Then you don't have to worry about cover roles and you can still have some uniqueness to the roleless civs for the purpose of writeups.

March Hare's ability could potentially break the game if given to a really good role hunter. Like if someone sniffs out the UC by day one/two then she has double investigations until the game is PoE'd. I don't think it's worth the risk of breaking your game, though it is a cool ability. Maybe give the March Hare limited stocks, like one or two, that only work when he targets someone with a targeting ability?

Okay, now for my observations / suggestions.

Duchess' Retaliate should be a normal bomb, wherein if she's killed by a vigi stock (Mad Hatter / White Queen) that person also dies. Limiting it to day lynches could potentially be a waste of a bomb if she dies at night.

You should maybe throw in a tracker role. Or a watcher. One or the other, not both.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Matt on July 26, 2015, 12:30:59 pm
Lemme answer your questions first and then I'll move on to my observations.

Cheshire Cat is actually a really good third party but completely lynchproof is OP. Maybe give it one shot lynchproof instead of only being able to die from night kill or Jabberwock. And vigi stocks should be able to kill it. So a small nerf is in order.

Disallow role claiming, allow ability claiming. Someone can say "I'm the UC / detective" but not "I'm Alice." This way you can give the roleless civs all unique role cards as you asked, because mafia should be able to claim roleless civ without worrying about someone counterclaiming a random Lewis Carroll character. They can't claim their roleless civ character but they can claim roleless civ. Then you don't have to worry about cover roles and you can still have some uniqueness to the roleless civs for the purpose of writeups.

March Hare's ability could potentially break the game if given to a really good role hunter. Like if someone sniffs out the UC by day one/two then she has double investigations until the game is PoE'd. I don't think it's worth the risk of breaking your game, though it is a cool ability. Maybe give the March Hare limited stocks, like one or two, that only work when he targets someone with a targeting ability?

Okay, now for my observations / suggestions.

Duchess' Retaliate should be a normal bomb, wherein if she's killed by a vigi stock (Mad Hatter / White Queen) that person also dies. Limiting it to day lynches could potentially be a waste of a bomb if she dies at night.

You should maybe throw in a tracker role. Or a watcher. One or the other, not both.
These all seem like good ideas.  I will change the Elusive ability to a one-shot lynchproof, add the March Hare (with only two stocks), make the Duchess a normal Bomb, disallow role-claiming and allow ability-claiming.  Why do you suggest adding a watcher or tracker?

This role just looks straight-up frustrating. The player with this role's only ever going to target their suspects (to either Investigate, Enforce or Kill them), and there's only a 50/50 chance of it rolling an ability that will provide them with information (Investigate/Kill). Sure, there's the opportunity that they'll successfully Enforce them, but there'll most likely be enough doubt for them to just target the same person the following Night trying to get the Investigation/Kill.

I see where you're trying to go with this role, but I think the main problem I have with it is that it has 2 "negative" (Enforce/Kill), 1 "positive" (Protect) and 1 "neutral" (Investigate), so there's no reason not to target a suspect instead of a friendly. If you wanna make this a fully "random" role, make it 2 positive/2 negative or 1 positive/1 negative/2 neutral. Unless you are trying to get them to only target suspects, then I guess it's fine (apart from the thing I mentioned above).
I see what you're saying.  If I took out Enforce, then Protect-Investigate-Kill would be balanced, but I think having only three options removes a bit of the "mad" factor.  I was thinking of swapping Enforce for Jail, which is completely neutral by itself, but Jail would still be slightly "negative" seeing that the player would gain no information from it.  Maybe if I told the player at the end of the phase which action ended up taking place?  But that would also remove a bit of the "mad" factor.

What other set-ups and abilities would make it balanced, useful and informative, but still "mad"?  Is Investigate-Protect-Kill my best option?

Quote
Does the Cheshire Cat count towards the Civ total?
If not, there's no reason for the Cheshire Cat to not RC Night 1, since the Mafia don't benefit from killing them.
If they do, they're still low on the Mafia priority list, since it's essentially confirming themselves as a roleless Civ.
I don't really understand why they're immune to lynches/Vigi, and why they can send a message each Night. Like assuming that they don't RC, what do you think they'd message? They don't care who wins and they don't have any special insight, so I don't see the value in it.
Cheshire Cat does count toward the civ total, and I just nerfed the Elusive ability to a one-shot lynchproof.  I put it there so the Survivor has a better shot of winning, since there's only been one Survivor winner in thirteen games on GTF.

As for the message, it's partly flavor and partly meant to add a new dimension to the Survivor.  The Survivor doesn't care who wins, but it is in their best interest for the game to end as quickly as possible.  The ability to send an anonymous message every night will allow the player to act in ways not normally available, and assist the mafia or townies as they find most advantageous (i.e. help one side by stating their role reads for the other side, giving explicit advice to one side, etc.).  It makes the Survivor more third-party as opposed to basically town-aligned, and the nature of it is characteristic of the Cheshire Cat, in my opinion.

Quote
You can't really ban role-claiming. At the most, people are still gonna be soft claiming. It also prevents the yomi of claiming a role you don't have, which can be tactically used by both Civ and Mafia.
That's true.  I think allowing ability claiming but not role claiming will be best.

Quote
Seems fine, considering that Civs have 4 player targeting abilities and Mafia have 3 (unless Jabberwocky counts). Just be aware that it'd be a fairly easy way for Civs to steamroll if they killed the Red Queen early (with Alice RCing to get double results unless Mafia sacrifices the Jabberwocky). That would depend on the Civ to Mafia ratio, though. Have you decided on your ideal Civ/Mafia count?
The game will support 20-25 players, so the mafia percentage will be 20%-25%.  If 20% ends up being a bit overwhelming for the mafia, I could add The Red King as a villain and/or split up the King of Hearts' abilities.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: DrWilgy on December 23, 2015, 11:36:25 am
So... I started working on something in my head... Thought I should jot down notes here to see what you think.

Terraria mafia

-26 players-
21 heroes
4 bosses
1 independent

Players have health points. HP will always be restored at the start of day phase.

Heroes:

Heroes can obtain different gear will modify hp and give other abilities.

During the night heroes can travel to different biomes, biomes will range and vary in difficulty. Loot and monsters will be encountered here.

Or

Heroes may choose to attack other players at night.

Or

Heroes may defend themselves at night.

Bosses:

Have btsc and will send someone to preform NK's. The boss that preforms the NK cannot use thier power that night. Will randomly recieve an item of the player night killed. They may only posses one stolen Item at a time and the item will be replaced upon receiving another.

~Moon Lord: cannot be night killed, each day they will select a player. That player's actions the following night will fail.

~Lunatic Cultist: they may use one of each (1 cast per cycle) of the following abilities once per game
1. Lightning - during the day they may target 3 player's. Their hp will be reduced by half until restored.
2. Ice Shards - during the night 3 random heroes will have thier night  actions negated.
3. Illusion - during the night the Lunatic Cultist may remove themself from the following lynch vote.

~Plantera: Once per game, if Plantera were to be killed, the kill will fail. Every other night Plantera will select a player, they will start with 1 extra vote. Plantera's vote will be worth 2 the day after the failed kill takes place.

~Eye of Cthulu: While eye of Cthulu is alive, if any bosses are attacked, they will learn the name of the attacker. If eye of Cthulu is attacked and survives, the attacker will recieve +3 votes the next day. (passive abilities will be stunned if performing the NK)

Independent:

~Traveling Merchant: the traveling merchant will visit a player every day and will be able to trade goods with visited player. If the merchant has traded with every remaining player when the game ends, the merchant wins. The merchant can not be NK'd.

~~~

NK's will not be revealed.

Lynch ties will be decided at random.

The game will also have a End Game vote, where the players can choose to end the game instead of preform a lynch. If the game is ended before all the bosses have been defeated the bosses will win. The game will only be ended by this vote. Lynch votes will always take priority over End Game votes. End Game votes are not affected by modifiers.

Now time to do math and create items, events and stats...
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Synonym on December 23, 2015, 05:18:07 pm
So... I started working on something in my head... Thought I should jot down notes here to see what you think.

Terraria mafia


Oh, a game by Wiggles? Let's se- TERRARIA?

Closes thread.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: DrWilgy on December 23, 2015, 08:25:22 pm
Oh, a game by Wiggles? Let's se- TERRARIA?

Closes thread.

I can't stop playing it, send help.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Synonym on December 23, 2015, 09:14:19 pm
I can't stop playing it, send help.

Or a tactical nuke.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Fruit Punch Samurai G on December 23, 2015, 10:09:35 pm
But it's so much fun.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on February 20, 2016, 06:34:35 pm
Just chucking down thoughts for a future game that I probably won't run since the Revenge format was perfection.

Scott Pilgrim vs. the World
-14 Civs, 7 Mafia
-Mafia are numbered 1-7
-Mafia only know the identities of Mafia 1 number deviation from their own number (e.g. Number 5 only knows the identities of 4 & 6)
-No Mafia chat
-Godfather is the lowest alive number
-Reminder: Add some cool as shit roles
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Synonym on February 21, 2016, 01:48:15 am
Just chucking down thoughts for a future game that I probably won't run since the Revenge format was perfection.

Scott Pilgrim vs. the World
-14 Civs, 7 Mafia
-Mafia are numbered 1-7
-Mafia only know the identities of Mafia 1 number deviation from their own number (e.g. Number 5 only knows the identities of 4 & 6)
-No Mafia chat
-Godfather is the lowest alive number
-Reminder: Add some cool as shit roles

We need some metrosexual loser to be our main protagonist. @RadicalFuzz, found your role!
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Missing Person on February 24, 2016, 11:51:23 pm
Just chucking down thoughts for a future game that I probably won't run since the Revenge format was perfection.

Scott Pilgrim vs. the World
-14 Civs, 7 Mafia
-Mafia are numbered 1-7
-Mafia only know the identities of Mafia 1 number deviation from their own number (e.g. Number 5 only knows the identities of 4 & 6)
-No Mafia chat
-Godfather is the lowest alive number
-Reminder: Add some cool as shit roles

I want to play this.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on March 10, 2016, 01:49:37 am
So has everyone recovered from the x month Mafia burnout? I've got an idea for a 'for fun' game to warm us up before our SRK Fresh Blood game.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: jasonC on March 10, 2016, 04:40:58 am
I'm always down.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ForgeDigger on March 10, 2016, 10:40:39 am
Same
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Pimp Willy on March 10, 2016, 10:46:08 am
Im up for a game. Or Im up for running my "Anything goes" game PogChamp
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: DrWilgy on March 10, 2016, 10:57:46 am
 I will be out of town for a week... Bit afterwards I'm down!
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on April 21, 2016, 07:44:18 am
TBA

Standard format: Some Mafia, a Doctor, a UC, a Vigi, the usual.

BUT WITH A TWIST.

All players have the Survivor role in addition to their regular role.

AND ANOTHER TWIST.

Anyone that votes for Mafia in the previous Day phase is immune to kills at night.

The less people alive at the end, the more ELO points those people receive.

All of this still needs to be properly balanced, but I just wanted to get the general idea written down somewhere in case I forget.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ForgeDigger on April 21, 2016, 07:56:21 am
Hrm. Not even the mafia want to work together in the end.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Cobalt on April 21, 2016, 12:55:14 pm
Alpha you don't have to assign everyone survivor, just use the antiquated mafia game type where if you die you don't win and you only win if you're alive town or alive scum.

I mean it's essentially the same thing.

Probably not gonna play that one tho my ELO ;-;
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on June 08, 2016, 04:13:26 am
Matrix12? More like Gaytrix12. Here's a better version of the whole 'figure out the roles as the game progresses' mechanic.

I'm calling this the Analogue format, unless I think of a better name, but Analogue is cool as shit.

BASIC:
Roles are placed in a roulette style image, alternating between Civ and Mafia roles (or not). e.g.

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/45366695/Analogue%20Basic.png)

A random number (we'll call this 'steps') is then generated from 2 to x-2 where x is the amount of roles on the board (so for 8 roles on the board, the number would be between 2 and 6). This basically specifies how many roles are in the game. This number is given out publicly (Or is it? If we were to play this game format, we would make it public at least the first time). Addendum: There's no reason this number can't be manually selected by the GM.
A second random number (we'll call this 'starting point') is then generated to dictate which of the roles to start on in the roulette image. So using the example above, Medic would be 1, Godfather would be 2, etc. This number is kept private.

The starting point role is inserted into the game. Going clockwise for the amount of steps specified (including the starting point), all roles stepped on are active in the game.

Using the example above:

The steps (announced publicly) is 5. The starting point is 3. The roles in the game are UC, Enforcer, Vigi, Bomb and Mayor.
Someone flips Enforcer. People now know that the roles can be anything between (Silencer/Medic/Godfather/UC/Enforcer) and (Enforcer/Vigi/Bomb/Mayor/Silencer)
Second person flips Bomb. Now from (Godfather/UC/Enforcer/Vigi/Bomb) to (Enforcer/Vigi/Bomb/Mayor/Silencer). Vigi is confirmed.
Third person flips Mayor. Last role is confirmed to be either UC or Silencer.

The amount of roles on the roulette board can be as many or as little as you like. Note that because of this format, Mafia have an advantage of extra knowlege (knowing a couple of roles in the game to narrow down which Civ roles are active). A bigger board with repeating, randomised roles can be used for extra confusion. ADD SEVERAL POSSIBLE ROULETTE BOARDS FOR EVEN MORE CONFUSION. AT THAT POINT, IT'S FUCKING BINGO.


ADVANCED:
The amount of roles on the board is locked to 12.

The random (or GM selected) number previously used for 'steps' is now used for 'hour'. The number is between 2 (2:00) and 10 (10:00). Oh hey. Analogue.
The random number previously used for 'starting point' is now used to select which role is '12', i.e. the top of the clock.
The time is announced publicly, with one hand on the starting point (12) and another hand on the hour. The image isn't shown with hands on it, it's just to help visualise. That would spoil which role is 12.
A coin flip then decides whether the roles will be selected clockwise or anti-clockwise. If clockwise, all roles from 12 to the hour in a clockwise direction are in play. Vice versa. The coin flip is kept private.
So essentially, 7:00 means there are either 5 or 7 roles in the game. ADDED COMPLEXITY.


I can imagine reading all of that would be confusing as shit, but it's something that would be easier to understand by playing it rather than reading it.

Also just a general disclaimer for all my posts in this thread. Anyone is free to use any of the ideas I come up with. I'm unlikely to run a Mafia game for a long time, and when I do, it'll probably be a remaster of Revenge. I'll change the theme to be something more people know of and there will be a few roles I wanna tweak (primarily Sammy and Margaux/Gideon).
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: I Lurker on July 07, 2016, 08:35:06 pm
I was thinking about hosting a horror-themed mafia game. I'd like to do a few unique things. Since no last gasps is a thing now I thought I'd combine the lovers and detective roles. I'd also like to make it harder for the mafia to lurk and do nothing. The godfather would be able to mask his alignment but he could only do it a certain number of times and only to a certain point. The forger wouldn't be able to forge himself or the godfather after a certain number of phases either.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on July 08, 2016, 01:05:25 am
All those balance changes sound hugely Civilian favoured. Although with a horror theme, I'd imagine you'd have some OP Mafia roles to balance that out anyway. Would be really interested to see how you'd make lurking harder and what other unique things you'd have in mind.

I did run a game (Revenge) where the Detective (Nolan) could become a lover, but the other lover (Louise) had to submit a search on them first.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: I Lurker on July 08, 2016, 06:36:06 am
Well those were my biggest and best ideas  :P. I'm open to suggestions. One lover having to search for the other one is a good one. How did the results for that work?
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on July 08, 2016, 02:19:09 pm
Well those were my biggest and best ideas  :P. I'm open to suggestions. One lover having to search for the other one is a good one. How did the results for that work?

It was actually really awesome. The game thread's here: http://jesustoastmafia.com/index.php/topic,437.0.html

(I did my usual thing of procrastinating on write-ups, but that's not important.)

The role was actually one that could find either the UC or what was essentially the Mafia UC. Whichever one they found, they were put into a PM with them and they joined the team the UC was affiliated with. The role actually managed to search for the Civ UC on Night 1, so they got a lot of benefit from that. Here's the Lovers' chat if you're interested: http://jesustoastmafia.com/index.php/topic,446.0.html

Really proud of that game and would like to run it again someday (with minor tweaks), so feel free to use anything for inspiration.

If you wanna post what you've got in terms of the game format (numbers, roles, etc.), feel free to post it and we'll take a look at it. Hell, you could bring back LGs if you really wanted to.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: I Lurker on July 08, 2016, 07:27:31 pm
I'm just going to type ideas as they come to me. Tell me what you think:

No last gasps but there would be a psychic or something who could talk to the dead but their ability would be weakened due so they'd only be able to contact 3 people. They'd also get a last gasp.

A necromancer who could bring temporarily bring back someone back for the dead.

No godfather for mafia. They'd vote on who to kill as a group.

One of the lovers could chose to sacrifice them self to resurrect/save their partner. This would give the returning player a boost and make them a jack of all trades. They'd only be able to use one ability only once though.

The mafia could chose to sacrifice one of their own in order to summon an unstoppable beast that can ignore civilian-based abilities. Nurse protection? Nope. Investigation? Fuck out of here!

If the mafia can correctly guess 3 civilian roles then they'll lose those abilities.

If the U.C. dies before revealing their list then there would be a 50% chance for the mafia to "find" it and alter it/destroy it. 
 
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on July 09, 2016, 07:18:57 am
k let's see.

There's no real reason for the psychic to talk to any non-investigative roles, so it'd be easy for them to save their power and for the UC to hold on to their results. It's essentially a bulletproof for the UC.

Necromancer sounds cool.

No godfather could be interesting, but most of the time, Mafia kills are unanimous anyway. Still a good idea.

There's no reason for the alive lover not to sacrifice themselves in exchange for a confirmed roleless (unless they're selfish).

Would be interested to see more fleshing out of the 'unstoppable beast' idea.

The 'guess 3 roles' thing might be interesting, but the reward seems a little low (unless they can guess roleless). Usually if they guess 3 roles, they all die, but this was used in the past for role madness games to stop everyone from claiming.

So a UC whose list is released on death with possible tampering? Might be cool.

Overall, some interesting ideas, but keep in mind how people would play those roles.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: I Lurker on July 11, 2016, 12:20:56 pm
k let's see.

There's no real reason for the psychic to talk to any non-investigative roles, so it'd be easy for them to save their power and for the UC to hold on to their results. It's essentially a bulletproof for the UC.

Necromancer sounds cool.

No godfather could be interesting, but most of the time, Mafia kills are unanimous anyway. Still a good idea.

There's no reason for the alive lover not to sacrifice themselves in exchange for a confirmed roleless (unless they're selfish).

Would be interested to see more fleshing out of the 'unstoppable beast' idea.

The 'guess 3 roles' thing might be interesting, but the reward seems a little low (unless they can guess roleless). Usually if they guess 3 roles, they all die, but this was used in the past for role madness games to stop everyone from claiming.

So a UC whose list is released on death with possible tampering? Might be cool.

Overall, some interesting ideas, but keep in mind how people would play those roles.

What if the psychic didn't get a last gasp and she died before the UC? Would the role work better that way? What if the UC has to reveal himself to her publicly?

Cool.

Cool.

What if the 2 lovers didn't know who the other one was?

I'd need some help "putting him together", like a Frankenstein monster.

What if every one had a specific role even if they didn't have a special ability like Missing Person was Sally Jenkins. Radiculfuzz was Hughie McDugglestick, etc.

UC list tampering would definitely allow for some shenanigans.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on July 12, 2016, 03:38:01 am
What if the psychic didn't get a last gasp and she died before the UC? Would the role work better that way? What if the UC has to reveal himself to her publicly?

Cool.

Cool.

What if the 2 lovers didn't know who the other one was?

I'd need some help "putting him together", like a Frankenstein monster.

What if every one had a specific role even if they didn't have a special ability like Missing Person was Sally Jenkins. Radiculfuzz was Hughie McDugglestick, etc.

UC list tampering would definitely allow for some shenanigans.

Those ideas for the Psychic could work, but that last part gave me an idea. What if the psychic could target a person each Night and was put into a PM with them when they eventually die? No guaranteed UC conversation, but there's a possibility to talk to strong players that are killed early. Would mean that the targeted people wouldn't be allowed in the Losers' Lounge tho.

That kinda defeats the purpose of the lovers, but it wouldn't make a difference anyway, since the write-up reveals roles on death, then the other lover just has to activate it. If you want to keep the Lover sacrifice theme in, you could make it something like "If a Lover sacrifices themselves, the other Lover's lynch votes count for 3 votes. The other Lover's identity remains hidden and additional votes do not show up in the vote tally".

As for a 'putting together' idea, what about something like sacrificing a member to double the power on another member? Could be useful in certain situations. So for example, if they sacrifice their Enforcer, another Mafia member can Enforce twice a Night from that point on. If you wanted to add even more rules to the sacrifice, you could make it so that only one Mafia member (the monster) can receive the sacrificed ability.

Well with the '3 role' ability in play, there's little reason for someone to reveal their roleless character's name. I can see that working if you added some sort of Mafia investigative role that gave the name of the character of a Player, but it'd have to have limited stocks.

Don't have to use any of these ideas, just trying to give some inspiration.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on July 12, 2016, 03:39:47 am
AND SPEAKING OF INSPIRATION, had another amazing brilliant totally fantastic idea. I was sorta joking about the Recycling game in the PW birthday thread, but what if we had a vote on the best/most interesting roles in JTM/SRK Mafia history and put them all into one game?
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ForgeDigger on July 12, 2016, 05:57:05 am
That'd be pretty cool I guess.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: I Lurker on July 13, 2016, 09:26:53 am
Those ideas for the Psychic could work, but that last part gave me an idea. What if the psychic could target a person each Night and was put into a PM with them when they eventually die? No guaranteed UC conversation, but there's a possibility to talk to strong players that are killed early. Would mean that the targeted people wouldn't be allowed in the Losers' Lounge tho.

That kinda defeats the purpose of the lovers, but it wouldn't make a difference anyway, since the write-up reveals roles on death, then the other lover just has to activate it. If you want to keep the Lover sacrifice theme in, you could make it something like "If a Lover sacrifices themselves, the other Lover's lynch votes count for 3 votes. The other Lover's identity remains hidden and additional votes do not show up in the vote tally".

As for a 'putting together' idea, what about something like sacrificing a member to double the power on another member? Could be useful in certain situations. So for example, if they sacrifice their Enforcer, another Mafia member can Enforce twice a Night from that point on. If you wanted to add even more rules to the sacrifice, you could make it so that only one Mafia member (the monster) can receive the sacrificed ability.

Well with the '3 role' ability in play, there's little reason for someone to reveal their roleless character's name. I can see that working if you added some sort of Mafia investigative role that gave the name of the character of a Player, but it'd have to have limited stocks.

Don't have to use any of these ideas, just trying to give some inspiration.

1-I like that. I like it a lot.

2-Expanding on the lovers' idea what if upon death in that particular game the player who died and their alignment, but not their character's name or role were revealed? For example

Missing Person was lynched. Missing Person was Mafia!

3-That's a good idea too.
You'd think it'd work then?

4-Having some type of mafia investigation role with a Synonym-like player on their team would allow them to wreck this civs' shit. I don't know if I'm for or against that.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on July 13, 2016, 05:13:54 pm
1-Cool cool. Now you have to decide some specifics. How long does the Psychic have contact with the spirit for (One phase? The whole game? Somewhere in between?)? Will dead players talk to the Psychic individually with PMs or as a group in a hidden thread?

2-You can run a game like that. That impacts the game way more for everyone, rather than just for the lovers though.

3-It could definitely work. Would give Mafia a decent mix-up of deciding whether to sacrifice someone who they feel may be in trouble or if they take the risk of keeping them around in hopes that they can be saved.

4-In that case, rather than have it as a "guess 3 roles correctly to nullify them", what about a "guess 1 role to nullify it" with limited stocks?
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: I Lurker on July 13, 2016, 08:05:16 pm
1-Cool cool. Now you have to decide some specifics. How long does the Psychic have contact with the spirit for (One phase? The whole game? Somewhere in between?)? Will dead players talk to the Psychic individually with PMs or as a group in a hidden thread?

2-You can run a game like that. That impacts the game way more for everyone, rather than just for the lovers though.

3-It could definitely work. Would give Mafia a decent mix-up of deciding whether to sacrifice someone who they feel may be in trouble or if they take the risk of keeping them around in hopes that they can be saved.

4-In that case, rather than have it as a "guess 3 roles correctly to nullify them", what about a "guess 1 role to nullify it" with limited stocks?

1-I'm thinking that the psychic can give me a list of 3 living players total. When one of them dies she's get to talk to them for one phase. She'll also be able to post their last gasp.

2-I'm tempted to try that just to see what happens.

3-The idea could still use some tweeking but I like how it's shaping up.

4-Should the player lose their ability permanently or should it just be temporary? Should the mafia know if they guessed successfully?

Man this is fun. I wish I had done it sooner.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Synonym on July 13, 2016, 08:21:52 pm
Just recycle all of the roles from the choose your own adventure game. Also, about a week until I'm back and able to run another mspaint whispers game.

Fuck Blizzard.

Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on July 13, 2016, 08:50:07 pm
1-I'm thinking that the psychic can give me a list of 3 living players total. When one of them dies she's get to talk to them for one phase. She'll also be able to post their last gasp.

2-I'm tempted to try that just to see what happens.

3-The idea could still use some tweeking but I like how it's shaping up.

4-Should the player lose their ability permanently or should it just be temporary? Should the mafia know if they guessed successfully?

Man this is fun. I wish I had done it sooner.

4-You could do either. Be aware that if it's too temporary, then it essentially becomes a harder to use Enforcer. If they know if they guessed correctly, they'll usually kill the role next phase. My recommendation would be to make it so that the player loses their ability until the Mafia with the guessing role dies, then the Mafia role might not even need limited stocks.

Yeah, I love designing games, I just don't have the time to run them. Ideally, I'd flesh out the game, then hand it over to someone to GM and write up. Depending on how you like to brainstorm, there's two main ways I've found that really help with making a good game.
-Start with a theme you're really interested in, think about the characters in that theme and what power fits them well.
-Start with one to several cool as shit roles and balance the game around them.
Just be aware while running your first game, something will go wrong; it's unavoidable. Just do your best to keep the game on track while you try to fix all the shit.

Just recycle all of the roles from the choose your own adventure game.

We can recycle killing off the best role in the game too.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: I Lurker on July 16, 2016, 09:04:42 am
4-You could do either. Be aware that if it's too temporary, then it essentially becomes a harder to use Enforcer. If they know if they guessed correctly, they'll usually kill the role next phase. My recommendation would be to make it so that the player loses their ability until the Mafia with the guessing role dies, then the Mafia role might not even need limited stocks.

Yeah, I love designing games, I just don't have the time to run them. Ideally, I'd flesh out the game, then hand it over to someone to GM and write up. Depending on how you like to brainstorm, there's two main ways I've found that really help with making a good game.
-Start with a theme you're really interested in, think about the characters in that theme and what power fits them well.
-Start with one to several cool as shit roles and balance the game around them.
Just be aware while running your first game, something will go wrong; it's unavoidable. Just do your best to keep the game on track while you try to fix all the shit.

4-What if the enforcer could lock-down 3 different people but they wouldn't know if they had roles or not? Would it work better as a regular ability or a buff after a sacrifice?

The balancing issue will be hard but I think the hardest thing for me would be coming up with interesting write-ups. I'd love to take a crack at it though. 
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on July 16, 2016, 11:56:45 am
4-What if the enforcer could lock-down 3 different people but they wouldn't know if they had roles or not? Would it work better as a regular ability or a buff after a sacrifice?

The balancing issue will be hard but I think the hardest thing for me would be coming up with interesting write-ups. I'd love to take a crack at it though. 

Not sure what you mean here. Like an Enforcer with 3 stocks, but the players are permanently enforced? That could work.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: I Lurker on July 16, 2016, 12:39:16 pm
Not sure what you mean here. Like an Enforcer with 3 stocks, but the players are permanently enforced? That could work.

Yeah he could enforce 3 people and as long as he lived they wouldn't be able to use their roles. He just wouldn't know if he hit a civilian or not.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on July 16, 2016, 01:35:39 pm
Yeah he could enforce 3 people and as long as he lived they wouldn't be able to use their roles. He just wouldn't know if he hit a civilian or not.

Ok. When do they decide the 3 people? Start of the game? One per Night? Any time they want?
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: I Lurker on July 16, 2016, 02:14:08 pm
Ok. When do they decide the 3 people? Start of the game? One per Night? Any time they want?

Hmmm, let me think about that.

*20 minutes later*

After the first day phase they can submit one name each night until all 3 slots are full. They can change the list anytime they want. 
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on July 16, 2016, 08:23:09 pm
Hmmm, let me think about that.

*20 minutes later*

After the first day phase they can submit one name each night until all 3 slots are full. They can change the list anytime they want. 

If they can change the list any time they want, then they're essentially an Enforcer that can enforce up to 3 people instead of 1. You can do it if you want, you just have to be aware that that's really strong.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: I Lurker on July 16, 2016, 10:15:46 pm
If they can change the list any time they want, then they're essentially an Enforcer that can enforce up to 3 people instead of 1. You can do it if you want, you just have to be aware that that's really strong.

Yeah that idea could definitely benefit from some fine tuning.

Here's another idea I had: what if certain civilian and mafia role players could "spend meter" to buff their ability but with a drawback? An enforcer could enforce 3 people for one night but he wouldn't be able to use his ability for a phase or 2. A nurse could choose to protect 2 players but she wouldn't be able to protect herself the next night. Buffs could only be used 1 or 2 times. 
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on July 16, 2016, 10:30:11 pm
Yeah that's an idea. Think you've got some idea on how to balance roles now, next step is putting it into action. Gotta put the roles into a proper game format, try to make sure both teams are balanced and give them names to fit their roles and theme.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: I Lurker on July 17, 2016, 01:09:40 pm
Yeah that's an idea. Think you've got some idea on how to balance roles now, next step is putting it into action. Gotta put the roles into a proper game format, try to make sure both teams are balanced and give them names to fit their roles and theme.

In keeping with the horror theme what if there was a mafia...or maybe 3rd party member who worked like the arsonist? Only instead of dosing people in gas she "cursed" them through sexual intercourse and they would die unless cured by the nurse.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on July 17, 2016, 01:29:03 pm
You mean a Succubus or Lindsay Lohan? No problem with the role, since as you said, it's literally just an Arsonist. Should make for some... interesting write-ups though.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: I Lurker on July 17, 2016, 07:20:09 pm
You mean a Succubus or Lindsay Lohan? No problem with the role, since as you said, it's literally just an Arsonist. Should make for some... interesting write-ups though.

Here's what I'm thinking. She'll be third party who has to sacrifice 3 people (civ. or mafia) in order to not die by the end of night 5. Her goal is to survive to the end of the game. She'll be the "slut" of my horror movie.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on July 17, 2016, 09:21:58 pm
Here's what I'm thinking. She'll be third party who has to sacrifice 3 people (civ. or mafia) in order to not die by the end of night 5. Her goal is to survive to the end of the game. She'll be the "slut" of my horror movie.

Let's see, "Douse" 4 Players on the first 4 Nights, Medic can save one, "Ignite" kills 3 people on Night 5. However, all everyone has to do to kill the Arsonist with that condition is lynch one of the 4 Doused targets on Day 5. Surviving to the end of the game is hard enough, but that first condition sounds very unlikely to fulfil.

If she's just a Serial Killer though, that's relatively easy to fulfil. The only way I can really see the SK not fulfilling that condition is if they're AFK (in which case they're likely to DQ anyway, but it's a nice anti-AFK strategy nonetheless). In that case, is the end of the game when one of the main teams win or when she's killed everyone?

How about instead of just "3 people by Night 5" and "live until the end of the game", it's something like "You must kill 1 Mafia member and 1 Roled Civ to win"?
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: I Lurker on July 18, 2016, 12:46:35 pm
Let's see, "Douse" 4 Players on the first 4 Nights, Medic can save one, "Ignite" kills 3 people on Night 5. However, all everyone has to do to kill the Arsonist with that condition is lynch one of the 4 Doused targets on Day 5. Surviving to the end of the game is hard enough, but that first condition sounds very unlikely to fulfil.

If she's just a Serial Killer though, that's relatively easy to fulfil. The only way I can really see the SK not fulfilling that condition is if they're AFK (in which case they're likely to DQ anyway, but it's a nice anti-AFK strategy nonetheless). In that case, is the end of the game when one of the main teams win or when she's killed everyone?

How about instead of just "3 people by Night 5" and "live until the end of the game", it's something like "You must kill 1 Mafia member and 1 Roled Civ to win"?

Okay what if it worked like this:

She could sleep with someone during the day or night (but not both). So if she chose a player during the day she couldn't infect anyone the following night (gotta let the vag recuperate). By the end of day 5 it would be revealed that 4 people were marked and the nurse could only save one of them. Or maybe there would be a healer who would have to decide who lived. I do like that "kill one mafia and a civ with an ability idea though.

I do like the kill one rolled civilian and mafia idea.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on July 18, 2016, 01:31:29 pm
What difference does it make whether they use it during the Day or Night phase? There's still the same problem of being able to lynch one of the four and save another to negate the 'kill 3' condition.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: I Lurker on July 18, 2016, 03:34:34 pm
What difference does it make whether they use it during the Day or Night phase? There's still the same problem of being able to lynch one of the four and save another to negate the 'kill 3' condition.

Well in the off-chance that one of her victims was lynched or night killed before the end of night 5 then I could see how that would suckt (anyone who was afflicted wouldn't know until after the day 5 write up). I liked the "save one of the four" idea for the chaos it could have caused. I liked your idea too though I'd probably change the win condition to surviving 'til the end of the game.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on July 18, 2016, 04:11:57 pm
Ahhhh, that's where I was getting confused. Doused targets are usually told that they have been doused, so they could just claim. Then again, maybe they wouldn't claim to avoid getting lynched to stop the Arsonist.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: I Lurker on July 19, 2016, 06:16:53 pm
When is the next mafia game anyway?
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on July 19, 2016, 06:28:34 pm
Don't think anyone's got one lined up as of yet. Syn will be running an MSPaint Whispers game when he gets back and I've got my VLR game still "coming soon", but nobody's announced any plans to run a Mafia game. If you wanna flesh your game out, we can run that next if you want.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: I Lurker on July 21, 2016, 06:25:37 pm
Don't think anyone's got one lined up as of yet. Syn will be running an MSPaint Whispers game when he gets back and I've got my VLR game still "coming soon", but nobody's announced any plans to run a Mafia game. If you wanna flesh your game out, we can run that next if you want.

I'd like to but my main concern would be updating things during the day since this site is blocked at work. Maybe I could come up with a workaround or something.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on July 21, 2016, 06:57:07 pm
Well most of the work is usually done at the end of the Night phase, so if you time the end of the Night phase to when you're at home, then all you need to do at the end of the Day phase is post the role of the player that got lynched, so you should be able to do that from your phone.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: I Lurker on July 26, 2016, 07:37:51 am
Well most of the work is usually done at the end of the Night phase, so if you time the end of the Night phase to when you're at home, then all you need to do at the end of the Day phase is post the role of the player that got lynched, so you should be able to do that from your phone.

I dunno man. I think I could[i/] make things work but I'd probably need a co-runner to keep things on-schedule. The idea of running a mafia game does seem both fun and stressful.

Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on July 26, 2016, 01:32:45 pm
The main problem with a co-runner is that you're already going to struggle filling a game here, and that just takes away another number. It's fine if you find someone that's not interested in playing (maybe someone retired) that would still help run a game.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ForgeDigger on July 26, 2016, 02:48:29 pm
Also you share blame if your game bombs because of your partner.

>.>
<.<
>.>
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on July 26, 2016, 06:33:35 pm
You really master sealed your fate on that one.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on January 29, 2017, 05:01:25 pm
@Pimp Willy, can we get a 'One Night Ultimate Werewolf' sub-category added to the Mafia Games category? I'm going to start running these weekly in conjunction with our big Mafia games.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Missing Person on February 06, 2017, 10:57:12 pm
The OP was updated.

B)
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on February 07, 2017, 01:30:44 am
The OP was updated.

B)

What was added?

Also thanks for bumping this topic. @Pimp Willy, do the fuckin thing I said two posts up.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Bious on February 07, 2017, 08:47:51 am
I'm gonna repair my old laptop and see if I can get the Dangan Ronpa info off it.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Pimp Willy on February 08, 2017, 11:23:20 am
What was added?

Also thanks for bumping this topic. @Pimp Willy, do the fuckin thing I said two posts up.

Im lazy, and it requires logging in as admin which could compromise the game. I'll do it sometime. Maybe
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Missing Person on February 08, 2017, 12:48:30 pm
What was added?

Also thanks for bumping this topic. @Pimp Willy, do the fuckin thing I said two posts up.

Oops, that was my fault. That post was meant to go into the ELO Ranking Thread.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on March 14, 2017, 06:09:02 am
Brainstorming sesh

Mean Girls
Mafia: Regina, Gretchen and Karen
Civs: Janis, Damian
Cady: Alternates between Civ and Mafia (must figure out a way to balance this so she can win, but also can't straight up rat out Mafia)
   Idea 1: Is Civ aligned until recruited by Mafia (via Enforce?), can be unrecruited somehow?
Random Civ gets the Burn Book every Night (function TBA)
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Pimp Willy on March 14, 2017, 09:07:59 am
"Pimp Willy Made out with a hot dog?"

"Oh my god that was one time!"
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Missing Person on March 14, 2017, 07:00:16 pm
Brainstorming sesh

Mean Girls
Mafia: Regina, Gretchen and Karen
Civs: Janis, Damian
Cady: Alternates between Civ and Mafia (must figure out a way to balance this so she can win, but also can't straight up rat out Mafia)
   Idea 1: Is Civ aligned until recruited by Mafia (via Enforce?), can be unrecruited somehow?
Random Civ gets the Burn Book every Night (function TBA)


Cady is Civ until forged by mafia. Remains mafia until contacted by lovers (Janis and Damian)
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Missing Person on March 14, 2017, 07:02:08 pm
Basically can have the mafia continue to forge her while the lovers continue to contact her.

Loses if mafia wins regardless, wins if civs win, but can't outwardly role claim.

Possibility that if she is contact by lovers that she joins lovers chat and can divulge anything?
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Missing Person on March 14, 2017, 07:02:52 pm
Also, Janis and Damian can't claim for her either.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on March 14, 2017, 07:27:53 pm
I don't like rules that say you're not allowed to do something (like claim). Also want Cady to be able to win with either team, but not make it her choice. I think I'll make it so that Janice can convert Cady back (UC?), but roles aren't revealed on death. That works with UC, then Cady will turn up as Mafia in the investigation results and she isn't told she was investigated/team swapped. Oh god the mind games on this game are already disgusting. I'll fight anyone that says I don't make the most interesting roles.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Reiraku on March 14, 2017, 08:19:46 pm
I had an idea for a game for about 15 people. 12 civs, 3 mafia based on Aliens.

Civ roles:
Bishop: Checks to see if a player is alien or human once per night.
Ripley: Can kill one player once per night up to three nights. Only active after Doc dies.
Doc: Can protect one player from dying per night.
Marine: Just some useless marine.

Alien roles:
Alien Queen: checks out as human to any Bishop checks.
Gorilla Alien: Can prevent one civ action per night.
Unstable Alien: When lynched, they explode and take one person of their choosing with them.

Bonus role:
Alien incubator: One civ serves as an alien incubator. If lynched by civs, he will turn into a berserker, giving the aliens one extra kill per night. If killed by Aliens, he just dies. The incubator wins if civs win while unturned and with the aliens when turned. The incubator is not aware of his role until he is turned/dies.

I wanted the alien roles to be at a disadvantage at first, but could quickly change with the wrong town lynch.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Missing Person on March 14, 2017, 08:53:57 pm
That's similar to what we used in Zombie Apocalypse, but is a fun format. I like the Incubator idea a lot.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on March 14, 2017, 09:32:41 pm
I was thinking it was similar to Attack on Titan. Still mad that people lynched Pimp.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Pimp Willy on March 14, 2017, 09:47:12 pm
Yeah in our zombie game, it was the carpenter, and when he died he could no longer repair the building, letting zombies kill twice at night. I really liked that format.

I dont even remember my Attack on Titan role, was I the one who could call for expeditions or something lol
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Pimp Willy on March 14, 2017, 09:54:15 pm
Wow that was SRK Mafia 6? Over 4 years ago now? Was that the start of the revival?

@Reiraku check out the roles if you wanna see how it was set up and played out

http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/174182/srk-mafia-vi-zombie-apocalypse-game-over-directed-by-m-night-shyamalan/p1

Bonus points for Black Jesus being the Carpenter
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on March 14, 2017, 11:07:53 pm
Yeah in our zombie game, it was the carpenter, and when he died he could no longer repair the building, letting zombies kill twice at night. I really liked that format.

I dont even remember my Attack on Titan role, was I the one who could call for expeditions or something lol

Yeah, it was the Carpenter role in AoT too. You played like garbage and got lynched because of it , despite my best efforts to save you. Fuzz was the publicly announced Day 1 immortal role, so I blame him for the loss.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: RadicalFuzz on March 16, 2017, 07:47:56 am
I suffered several minor injuries from falling out my chair laughing that game.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Pimp Willy on March 16, 2017, 09:21:26 am
I remember being thoroughly confused by the entire setup of that game, possibly because I am not familiar with the source material
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: jasonC on March 16, 2017, 10:38:32 am
Wait are you talking about the same game? AoT? At which points did you laugh at, Fuzz?
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Missing Person on December 21, 2017, 08:48:58 am
So here's what I have. Basically, remember that SFxT game I kept teasing? Spoiler: That was supposed to be an April Fools joke during the hayday of Mafia on SRK, as a way to troll. There was going to be zero actual mafia and the entire group playing was supposed to freak out when they kept mislynching.

It's a little too late to do that, since the joke that was SFxT is no longer a punchline worth pursuing and we're in a fragile state in mafia that a joke game like that would do more harm than good.

As such I've been redesigning it to be a legitimate game. Here's what I have:

Pandora Mode: At night, in lieu of a night kill, Tekken may opt to sacrifice one of their own.  This will activate Pandora Mode.  In Pandora Mode, there will be no more night phases.  Day phases will last exactly 24 hours, and players should vote to lynch.  This cycle will continue until Tekken wins, or the civilians have lynched a Tekken.  Point deduction and DQs will not occur due to missing vote deadlines in Pandora Mode. Gems may not be activated during Pandora Mode.

Possible Gems:

Meter Gem
-Activation Requirement: 3 or more players vote for you during a day phase, and you are not lynched.
-Activation Result: Once during the game, you may use your Gem to target two people with your ability.

Attack Gem
-Activation Requirement: You are targeted by an ability that is not yours during two night phases.
-Activation Result: Once during the game, you may use your ability without regard to any ability that may result in it being unsuccessful.

Defense Gem
-Activation Requirement: You are part of the lynch majority three phases in a row.
-Activation Result: Once during the game, you may choose to be automatically protected from any night kill should you be targeted.

Roles:

SF:

Elena: You may choose one player at night, including yourself.  That person will be protected from any night kill.

Guile: You may choose one player at night.  You will be told their alignment.  If you, or the player you target, is targeted by Elena on the same night, your results will return as Inconclusive.  You may not target yourself.

Chun-Li: You may choose one player at night.  You will be told their alignment, but it will be the opposite result (Meaning, Tekken will return as Street Fighter.)  If you, or the player you target, is targeted by Elena on the same night, your results will return as Inconclusive.  You may not target yourself.

Rolento: You may choose one player at night.  If you are targeted for a night kill, one of your grenades will detonate and kill that player as well.

Ibuki: You may choose one player at night to throw a Kunai at.  Unless that player is targeted by Elena, they will die.  You start with 3 kunais, and lose them if you kill a Street Fighter.  If your supply drops below 3, they will be replinished if a Tekken gets lynched.

Juri: You may choose one player at night.  You will be told whether that player has a special role or not.

Cody: You may choose to put one player in jail at night.  You will be told what abilities, if any, were used on them that night.

Poison: Once, during day phase, you may submit a target.  The lynch vote will be nullified, and your target will be lynched instead.

Rufus: Receives a last gasp if killed.

Tekken:

Heihachi:  You are responsible for sending the Tekken night kills.  You will always investigate as "Street Fighter."

Jin:  You may target one person at night.  If that person is targeted by Guile or Chun-Li, their results will be reversed.

Marduk: You may target one person every other night.  That person will not be allowed to be targeted by Elena for two nights, including the night you target them.

Nina: You may target one person every night.  That person's ability will be blocked, if it is an active ability, and will be included in the write-up.

Kazuya: You may choose once during day phase to activate your Devil Gene.  If you do, the day phase will end, the lynch vote will be nullified, and night phase will begin.

Xiaoyu: If you are killed by Rolento or Ibuki, Tekken gets an extra night kill on the next night phase.

Yoshimitsu: May commit seppuku and sacrifice himself at night. In doing so, Tekken will receive the roles of three Street Fighters at random.

Alisa: If night killed, her head explodes, killing whoever targeted her. If lynched, she will give her head to a random person who voted to lynch her.

Third Party:

Akuma: May target one person each night. If that person has a special role, he becomes aligned with whichever team that player is on, and gains a new role accordingly. If that player is roleless, he commits Shun Goku Satsu and kills whoever he targeted.

Akuma (Street Fighter):

Akuma (Tekken):

Now, let's balance the shit out of this.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: RadicalFuzz on December 21, 2017, 09:07:51 am
That's a lot of players. 9 Civ roles & 8 Mafia ones, along with a 3rd party, make 18 without roleless. Given that Akuma's entire ability requires roleless, that's probably 5/6 more. Might need to scale that down depending on activity. Does every individual player pick their preferred gem or is it randomly assigned?
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: jasonC on December 21, 2017, 10:25:31 am
SFxT isn't even relevant anymore.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on December 21, 2017, 02:22:02 pm
Marduk's broken. Elena has enough disadvantages without that role.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Reiraku on December 22, 2017, 01:28:34 am
So, I came up with a theme for a game that I'm sure could work, but my schedule really doesn't permit me to run a game. Pretty simple in roles (almost identical to my alien idea, because simple works for me) but so much more fun. This game would have to be run on SRK simply because of what it's about.

SRK Meta Mafia
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on December 22, 2017, 01:58:53 am
(https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-13-2016/effr82.gif)
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Reiraku on December 22, 2017, 02:33:03 am
The scenario:

Due to a mishap involving McRib sauce, the SRK database gets corrupted. An unfortunate side effect of this is several malicious users have been shuffled around and given mod powers. The only way to stop them is to ban them before they can ban the real mods and outnumber the good users. Luckily, Vanilla is such garbage that banning someone can only occur once a day.

Our Mods:

Pertho: Guardian Angel - At the beginning of the night phase, this Mod selects a poster. This poster is unable to be lynched until the following day. "Banning people is a last resort around here."

Preppy: Database Analysis - Select one user during the night phase. At the end of the night phase, that person's role will be revealed to Preppy. "Just give me the summary."

DevilJin: Infraction - During the night phase, select one user. That user's account will be deleted (see also: banned). Only usable three times before shit gets too corrupted. "I guess that one infraction was just enough to get him banned."

Regular users: Who cares? It's SRK!

Our Trolls:

Affinity: Obfuscation - Any examination will come up as a regular user. Mostly because this robot's posts get buried so fast no one can read them. They never say anything important anyways. "Most Ultimate Misogyny Hyper Combo Finish!"

Po Pimpus: F----! - If this user gets banned, they select another user to get into a petulant flame war. Both users are banned. "It's not bad DLC if I like it!"

StockyJam: Check up - At the beginning of the night phase, choose one user to "enforce." That user will be unable to use their ability because they'll be too busy at the local clinic wondering what those warts are. "Seriously, get tested."

Third Party

WTF-AKUMA-HAX: Cult of Personality - Choose one user each night to indoctrinate. If alive at the end of the game with everyone indoctrinated, you win no matter which side is the victor.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on December 22, 2017, 04:44:03 am
>no Angelpalm or NickRocks

Why even play?
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Reiraku on December 22, 2017, 09:55:07 am
They didn't fit as mods, and couldn't come up with a good reason for their role as trolls.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Missing Person on December 22, 2017, 10:19:18 am
That's a lot of players. 9 Civ roles & 8 Mafia ones, along with a 3rd party, make 18 without roleless. Given that Akuma's entire ability requires roleless, that's probably 5/6 more. Might need to scale that down depending on activity. Does every individual player pick their preferred gem or is it randomly assigned?

It triggers as you gain them.
Marduk's broken. Elena has enough disadvantages without that role.

Remove him, or fix it?

If the latter, how would you guys suggest?
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Synonym on December 22, 2017, 04:46:39 pm
The scenario:

Due to a mishap involving McRib sauce, the SRK database gets corrupted. An unfortunate side effect of this is several malicious users have been shuffled around and given mod powers. The only way to stop them is to ban them before they can ban the real mods and outnumber the good users. Luckily, Vanilla is such garbage that banning someone can only occur once a day.

Our Mods:

Pertho: Guardian Angel - At the beginning of the night phase, this Mod selects a poster. This poster is unable to be lynched until the following day. "Banning people is a last resort around here."

Preppy: Database Analysis - Select one user during the night phase. At the end of the night phase, that person's role will be revealed to Preppy. "Just give me the summary."

DevilJin: Infraction - During the night phase, select one user. That user's account will be deleted (see also: banned). Only usable three times before shit gets too corrupted. "I guess that one infraction was just enough to get him banned."

Regular users: Who cares? It's SRK!

Our Trolls:

Affinity: Obfuscation - Any examination will come up as a regular user. Mostly because this robot's posts get buried so fast no one can read them. They never say anything important anyways. "Most Ultimate Misogyny Hyper Combo Finish!"

Po Pimpus: F----! - If this user gets banned, they select another user to get into a petulant flame war. Both users are banned. "It's not bad DLC if I like it!"

StockyJam: Check up - At the beginning of the night phase, choose one user to "enforce." That user will be unable to use their ability because they'll be too busy at the local clinic wondering what those warts are. "Seriously, get tested."

Third Party

WTF-AKUMA-HAX: Cult of Personality - Choose one user each night to indoctrinate. If alive at the end of the game with everyone indoctrinated, you win no matter which side is the victor.
I would play the shit out of this game.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Missing Person on December 22, 2017, 06:06:28 pm
There needs to be a Zatalcon one with something about Chinks in it.

Otherwise, looks good.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Reiraku on December 22, 2017, 07:07:01 pm
Too bad my schedule sucks, so running a game is nearly impossible for me.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Synonym on December 22, 2017, 10:33:39 pm
Too bad my schedule sucks, so running a game is nearly impossible for me.

Could you do the write-ups? I'd be happy to run the game, but I have little context for most of those players to add flavour.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Reiraku on December 22, 2017, 11:44:13 pm
Could you do the write-ups? I'd be happy to run the game, but I have little context for most of those players to add flavour.
I probably could. Most of the write ups are very fill in the blank in nature, so it shouldn't be too hard.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Synonym on December 23, 2017, 02:23:23 am
I probably could. Most of the write ups are very fill in the blank in nature, so it shouldn't be too hard.

I'll get a sign-up over on SRK going and post a link here. I'll aim to start the game in the new year. Just need to figure out some deadlines that won't completely kill me timezone wise.
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: Synonym on December 23, 2017, 02:29:54 am
For anyone wanting to play mafia again.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/217422/srk-mafia-game-xix-sign-up-thread-srk-meta-mafia-cohosted-with-reiraku/p1?new=1
Title: Re: Game Design/Balancing Thread
Post by: ✰Alpha✰ on March 13, 2018, 05:17:33 am
@Bious

Wanna help me get some weapons into Danganronpa 3 Arena? I really just need some vanilla weapons, as I want the main focus of the game to be the abilities. I just can't help myself from not making weapons that have like 6 passives and 4 actives.