September 22, 2017, 08:51:14 pm

Author Topic: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Night 7.1 (Endgame) (Civ's win!)  (Read 110193 times)

kaz

  • White Toast
  • ***
  • Posts: 594
  • Rated: +158
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #600 on: April 13, 2015, 08:04:31 am »
Lynch FPSG
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

RadicalFuzz

  • Piece of cake
  • Mafia Endgame
  • White Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 1660
  • Rated: +372
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #601 on: April 13, 2015, 08:05:12 am »
As for Fuzz I thought my response was satisfactory. You asked me what I thought in regards to if Chief flipped bomb specifically in the context of voting. If Chief flipped bomb, some of his teammates would have voted for him.

If Chief flips bomb, look at who voted for him. You wont find all of them there but you will find more than one most likely.

(Quoting my post from earlier in this spoiler so it takes up less space)
Spoiler for Hiden:

Apologies if I was appearing snippy TGG, that wasn't my intention, and it isn't even now. I appreciate your responses to my question, that's not an issue and I want you to know that my problem with your responses aren't connected to you choosing to respond to me. That being said I do have a problem with your responses.

I asked you the following: "What conclusion would you draw if Chief flips Bomb? Specifically with regards to voting, would the Mafia cut their losses, so to speak, and vote for him? Or would they still try to postpone his explosion as long as possible?"
The first time I asked you, you responded with this:
Spoiler for Hiden:
I find it less likely that Cobalt was bomb now. Reason being is that if he is a mafia, he may have taken advantage of the stand in feature to save his mafia role as compensation for fucking up so hard. Because normally people would avoid lynching a stand in because of the previous players' fuck up. Mafia may have encouraged him to go use that plan, but GM is always in the mafia thread. I can't say for certain if Bious would allow them to abuse that feature to save their skin. So it's more likely that is something Cobalt devised on his own if he is mafia.

On the otherhand he could be saving his power role as compensation for fucking up so hard.

Either way I guarantee he isnt roleless. Nobody would try that hard to preserve a roleless card.

Because I mean really, if he is roleless and not PR/Mafia, why wouldnt he just accept the death and not have to deal with the game anymore as opposed to his current action of subout+plead with the thread to not lynch Chief+possibly let Chief die in his place. That is the hardest route imaginable.

I'd be surprised if Chief flips Bomb at this point really.

We need to lynch Chief tomorrow. We cant have the lingering uncertainty.

I asked you what conclusion(s) you would draw if Chief flipped Bomb. You responded by talking around the issue, saying that it's unlikely that Cobalt is Bomb, but reinforce that he is almost certainly not roleless.

The second time you responded with this:
Spoiler for Hiden:
It would make more sense for Mafia to help push the Chief lynch if he were the bomb. Especially with day 1 vote being such a close call. It's an easy sell because of Cobalt's fuck ups.

The role card says that bomberman picks his target to kill with him when lynched. They can kill anybody they want during day phase with a bomberman lynch. It's a double kill phase when they do. It isn't exactly necessary for them to use bombermans ability immediately, but personally I wouldnt see a reason to delay it either.

You again don't talk about any actual conclusions you would draw from Chief flipping Bomb. You instead talk about the possibility of Mafia pushing Chief if he was the Bomb due to how close the Day 1 votes were.

You've danced around my question. I don't like that.

You think your response was satisfactory. In your first response you said absolutely nothing about voting, you instead focus on how Cobalt most definitely isn't roleless, and probably not the Bomb, for several reasons. You don't even talk about voting until your second response, and the focus of that response is actually on stating the Bomb's role, that Mafia gets 2 kills that phase and how there's no reason to delay or use it hastily.

Let me put this in a more simple context. I asked you what conclusions you would draw if Chief flipped Bomb, specifically with regards to voting. You completely ignore my actual question the first time I ask you, and the second time I ask you I receive a very shallow answer. I want to be clear, I'm not saying that because you didn't give me a super in-depth answer you must be Mafia. My point is you don't want to talk about what happens if Chief flips Bomb. Over two responses that directly ask you about that you only respond by saying that it would be more likely for Mafia to push a Chief lynch if he were Bomb.

The main thing I'm getting at is you don't want to talk about any conclusions you would draw if Chief flips Bomb. Because you know if he'll flip Bomb or not.
  • Like x 1    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs (List of Rates | 1 Post Total)

Missing Person

  • Fuck yo' ST, nigga!
  • Spam Defender
  • Jesus Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 5472
  • Yatta!
  • Rated: +1397
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #602 on: April 13, 2015, 08:06:27 am »
I like Fuzz's last post.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs
"I love you, you love me. Barney raped me by the sea." --Synonym
"Why do I feel like I'm being fooled by you both?  I can't find the penis.  I need to find the penis." --Augustus
"Nobody can read baby." --Pimp Willy
"Get your goddamn Battle Arena Toshinden shit out of my Tekken." --Souther
"That's when I decided to give up on my dream to become an X-Man and begin pursuing girls." --tortugagrande, champion of all our hearts.

Bious

  • Shaking
  • Mafia Endgame
  • Sourdough Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 2264
  • Rated: +700
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #603 on: April 13, 2015, 08:07:14 am »
Someone PM'D me about this so I'll answer here:

All specifics about role cards were available to anyone who asked before and after the game started.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

Missing Person

  • Fuck yo' ST, nigga!
  • Spam Defender
  • Jesus Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 5472
  • Yatta!
  • Rated: +1397
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #604 on: April 13, 2015, 08:12:33 am »
Quote
I haven't played with descuff, no one except @JonathanT88 has played with him that's still in this game (And I'd love to have him chime in on descuff sometime before deadline), but I'm fairly sure, just based off what psychologically makes sense to me given how this game has played out so far.

Hmm... Descuff is being more active and considerably more of an extrovert than he was last time I've known him to be mafia, but given he's only been mafia once he could have just "learnt" how to be more active, I don't know.

I don't know whether or not it's already been mentioned, this forum's lack of a section containing all the posts of one person in a particular thread in one place is really getting to me, but I don't like how descuff defended Cobalt so passionately  in a way a mafia wouldn't do for another mafia but how a mafia might do for a roleless civilian when trying to make themselves look good. I sort of "told you so" when Cobalt was inevitably going to die at the end of phase 1 but didn't because of the Grey Spy claim. That strikes me as suspicious.

As far as finding posts, if you go to their profile, there should be a link that says "Show Posts."  It'll show every post in chronological order, counting posts in other threads, but it will bring up their posts.  Considering descuff hasn't ventured outside of the game, I think you'd find what you're looking for easily.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs
"I love you, you love me. Barney raped me by the sea." --Synonym
"Why do I feel like I'm being fooled by you both?  I can't find the penis.  I need to find the penis." --Augustus
"Nobody can read baby." --Pimp Willy
"Get your goddamn Battle Arena Toshinden shit out of my Tekken." --Souther
"That's when I decided to give up on my dream to become an X-Man and begin pursuing girls." --tortugagrande, champion of all our hearts.

Missing Person

  • Fuck yo' ST, nigga!
  • Spam Defender
  • Jesus Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 5472
  • Yatta!
  • Rated: +1397
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #605 on: April 13, 2015, 08:13:31 am »
And with that, I have taken melatonin and will be rendered unconscious very soon.

I'll be back in 9-ish hours.  Would be 8-ish if not for my phone going FUBAR on me.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs
"I love you, you love me. Barney raped me by the sea." --Synonym
"Why do I feel like I'm being fooled by you both?  I can't find the penis.  I need to find the penis." --Augustus
"Nobody can read baby." --Pimp Willy
"Get your goddamn Battle Arena Toshinden shit out of my Tekken." --Souther
"That's when I decided to give up on my dream to become an X-Man and begin pursuing girls." --tortugagrande, champion of all our hearts.

✰Alpha✰

  • Commando
  • Game Bot
  • Sourdough Toast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3135
  • Child of Despair
  • Rated: +1904
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #606 on: April 13, 2015, 08:15:59 am »
@✰Alpha✰ I'm just saying if we have the option between a mafia lynch a traitor lynch, then I choose the mafia every time.

I agree with that, and if the UC had come forward with a Guilty result today, I'd be on that lynch train. But for now, a confirmed Traitor is a much better lynch than a potential Mafia.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs
Lynch: RadicalFuzz
Quote from: tortugagrande
That bio is the douchiest thing I have read all year, and I am an editor for yeswearedouchebags.com.

The Chief

  • Mafia Endgame
  • White Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 960
  • Burnt Toast
  • Rated: +267
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #607 on: April 13, 2015, 08:17:50 am »
@RadicalFuzz - Question: Were these concerns of yours about the bomb as prevalent when Cobalt was playing? The pattern to your posts on this topic is alarming. It's almost as if you're placing the posts with a specific timing. Nearly 1 post per gage within the top section of the pages where you post.

Forgive me if I'm seeing things but if this has been the case since game start or Cobalt came up for lynch, I will ignore it.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

RadicalFuzz

  • Piece of cake
  • Mafia Endgame
  • White Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 1660
  • Rated: +372
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #608 on: April 13, 2015, 08:27:15 am »
My concerns about the bomb? Can you be a bit more clear, I'm not sure what you're asking. As for my posts usually being near the top of the page that's a happy accident.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

JonathanT88

  • Moldy Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 26
  • Burnt Toast
  • Rated: +5
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #609 on: April 13, 2015, 08:32:13 am »
I'm going to lynch Fruit Punch Samurai. I don't see the point in postponing a confirmed traitor's execution when the alternative is killing somebody who may or may not be something.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

The Chief

  • Mafia Endgame
  • White Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 960
  • Burnt Toast
  • Rated: +267
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #610 on: April 13, 2015, 08:33:53 am »
My concerns about the bomb? Can you be a bit more clear, I'm not sure what you're asking. As for my posts usually being near the top of the page that's a happy accident.

Sure.

Concerns about the bomb can be replaced your focus on TGG or it can be replaced by the apparent consistency that you refer to me as the bomb repeatedly. In either case, my question is basically were you focused on this topic of discussion before I started playing, I.e. during the time Cobalt was playing.

P.S. You should go look at the last 5-6 pages. Your posting pattern falls right into the description of a Jesus Toast pattern. Its really funny. lol 

:coffee:
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

RadicalFuzz

  • Piece of cake
  • Mafia Endgame
  • White Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 1660
  • Rated: +372
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #611 on: April 13, 2015, 08:34:33 am »
An agitated Cobalt is hard to pin down, as the first phase as proven. I expected a mafia Cobalt to be more laid-back and surely someone in the mafia. This is aided by the fact that he basically gave up and I haven't known him to do that at all. Meanwhile you're taking an agitated Cobalt (and my defense) to be an automatic mafia when in truth he just had a very floppy and pathetic game.

Bear with me for a second. "Normal" Cobalt has certain habits and tendencies and intentionally does certain things while intentionally avoiding certain other things. I think you could apply that to pretty much everybody. And when people get really stressed out, referred to as "Agitated" from here on out, they make mistakes, do things without thinking them through, any number of actions that they wouldn't do in a "Normal" state. If you have any issue with this paragraph then explicitly point it out so we can fix any misunderstandings before they begin.

So, now that we have those two states clearly defined, I'm going to look at your first post.

Quote
Cobalt's actions in the past phase were likely due to emotional stress

The first statement you make is saying that Cobalt was acting under a heavy amount of stress. This sets up that Cobalt is in the "Agitated" state. There's nothing wrong with this statement, it's pretty accurate.

Quote
I find it highly unlikely that he was mafia, it just does not fit what he would do as any mafia (though he could still be traitor)

This statement contradicts your first. If he's "Agitated", then he won't be playing normally. Your knowledge of what Cobalt would do as mafia in a "Normal" state isn't going to help you read him if you've already established that he's in an "Agitated" state. In addition you explain neither what he isn't doing that he would as mafia nor why his actions could still fit the Traitor role.

Quote
A power role civ is more than likely at this point and we need to tread lightly

This statement doesn't contradict anything. Its intent is to advise caution, assuming you're civilian, or to spread fear and doubt, assuming you're mafia. I'm leaning slightly towards the latter right now if only because you publicly claim that he's a power role civilian without attempting to set up a Medic 50/50. You mention he's more than likely a power role and drop it.




Quote
Meanwhile you're taking an agitated Cobalt (and my defense) to be an automatic mafia when in truth he just had a very floppy and pathetic game.

I honestly don't care about you defending him, or him defending you, or whatever even happened. My suspicion stems entirely from the above post I just dissected. If you think that's false, then can you point out where I mention you defending him or declare one of you to be an "automatic mafia"? I'm not trying to come across as confrontational with that statement, there are some times I legitimately forget what I've said, so if this is one of those times I want to clear it up.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

RadicalFuzz

  • Piece of cake
  • Mafia Endgame
  • White Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 1660
  • Rated: +372
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #612 on: April 13, 2015, 08:44:07 am »
Sure.

Concerns about the bomb can be replaced your focus on TGG or it can be replaced by the apparent consistency that you refer to me as the bomb repeatedly. In either case, my question is basically were you focused on this topic of discussion before I started playing, I.e. during the time Cobalt was playing.

I think I understand what you're asking. When did I start focusing on the Bomb role and TGG? That was right at the start of Day 2. I had asked TGG that question about what conclusions he would draw if you flipped Bomb during Night 1, and said I wasn't going to post anymore that Night phase. His response bugged me so beginning of Day 2 I immediately ask him the question again. From there I made my most recent post about him where I talk about it again. So, to answer your question, I wasn't focused on this when Cobalt was playing, no.

I haven't discussed the Bomb role outside of that, I don't think, and I only consistently refer to you as the Bomb in those posts where I asked for TGG's conclusions based off that same assumption. Apologies if it gets under your skin, I'm not trying to get people to correlate "Chief" and "Bomb" if that's what you're concerned about. I'll state the hypothetical I'm operating on more clearly next time that comes up.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

The Chief

  • Mafia Endgame
  • White Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 960
  • Burnt Toast
  • Rated: +267
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #613 on: April 13, 2015, 09:04:52 am »
Sure.

Concerns about the bomb can be replaced your focus on TGG or it can be replaced by the apparent consistency that you refer to me as the bomb repeatedly. In either case, my question is basically were you focused on this topic of discussion before I started playing, I.e. during the time Cobalt was playing.

I think I understand what you're asking. When did I start focusing on the Bomb role and TGG? That was right at the start of Day 2. I had asked TGG that question about what conclusions he would draw if you flipped Bomb during Night 1, and said I wasn't going to post anymore that Night phase. His response bugged me so beginning of Day 2 I immediately ask him the question again. From there I made my most recent post about him where I talk about it again. So, to answer your question, I wasn't focused on this when Cobalt was playing, no.

I haven't discussed the Bomb role outside of that, I don't think, and I only consistently refer to you as the Bomb in those posts where I asked for TGG's conclusions based off that same assumption. Apologies if it gets under your skin, I'm not trying to get people to correlate "Chief" and "Bomb" if that's what you're concerned about. I'll state the hypothetical I'm operating on more clearly next time that comes up.

Gotcha.

But would you admit that that would be a suspiciously crafty play? (sending subliminal messages to hypnotize the easily manipulated to keep votes on to a person already in the hot seat)?

Did you really get the vibe that you got under my skin too? Surely you weren't trying to do that, but the fact that you mention says you just want to push buttons and see what happens. That's a good thing though so keep it up.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

XthAtGAm3RGuYX

  • White Toast
  • ***
  • Posts: 1770
  • Brother of Brine
  • Rated: +714
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #614 on: April 13, 2015, 09:12:48 am »
I don't really understand what you want from me Fuzz. What would I think if Chief flipped bomb? I would think that everything I assumed about how Cobalt was playing is correct, right down to subbing out with Chief.

What would happen? That's pretty obvious. We killed a Mafia and we lose two civ. Not sure what there is to discuss about specifically if Chief flips bomb.

I've already been over my thoughts on votes if Chief flips bomb. There just isn't really any way I can formulate a long winded post about it.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

jasonC

  • Mafia Endgame
  • Sourdough Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 3659
  • Rated: +731
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #615 on: April 13, 2015, 09:20:43 am »
I don't mean to interrupt your civ/civ squabbles, but Gamer Dude needs more heat. 

From what I know, this guy did really well in GoC last year, so he knows what's up.  He also asked some good questions pre-game so that he set up to play the game, mechanically.  Then he goes ahead and misses the first vote.  The only power we have as civ, and he goes and fucks it up.

Early Day 1, he piles on the Cobalt "train" and he can play it off as him not being mafia because only noob mafia would do that.  Easy way to step on toes without really making a wave.

This post from Day 1:
I have my own independent read of phoenix but I want to hear more from him before I expand.

Just wanted a second PoV

That was like 2 days ago.  He's posted since then but not about phoenix, even after there's been plenty of discussion about him.  So is this "expansion" going to come or was he posting that to remain as neutral as possible?  Gamer Dude, what is your mafia read on him?  Are you at a point where you can share?

I saw him setting up a potential soft claim with the "ainec" thing, but now he can't use it because Augustus is dead.
  • Like x 2    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs (List of Rates | 2 Post Total)

RadicalFuzz

  • Piece of cake
  • Mafia Endgame
  • White Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 1660
  • Rated: +372
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #616 on: April 13, 2015, 09:57:41 am »
Gotcha.

But would you admit that that would be a suspiciously crafty play? (sending subliminal messages to hypnotize the easily manipulated to keep votes on to a person already in the hot seat)?

Did you really get the vibe that you got under my skin too? Surely you weren't trying to do that, but the fact that you mention says you just want to push buttons and see what happens. That's a good thing though so keep it up.

That would be a very crafty thing to do, both the "top of the page" and repeatedly throwing someone's name out as a Mafia role hypothetically.

It wasn't so much that I thought it was bugging you, that was a poor choice of words, but that could be annoying for you if you thought I was trying to say you were Mafia and get people to subconsciously agree with me. With everything that happened before you got into the game for me to pull that on you would just be rude.

I don't really understand what you want from me Fuzz. What would I think if Chief flipped bomb? I would think that everything I assumed about how Cobalt was playing is correct, right down to subbing out with Chief.

What would happen? That's pretty obvious. We killed a Mafia and we lose two civ. Not sure what there is to discuss about specifically if Chief flips bomb.

I've already been over my thoughts on votes if Chief flips bomb. There just isn't really any way I can formulate a long winded post about it.

I don't want anything in particular from you now TGG, unless you're up for another question. I was hoping that, with how extensively you got off track in your first empty response, you would talk about the ramifications that would have on the game. We had the Day 1 vote tally at that time, we had a list of about 8 players that voted for Cobalt, but you didn't want to name names. Something like where to go next, maybe "X is somewhat suspicious already, if Chief were to flip Bomb then we would need to take a closer look at him", maybe a stronger read on Descuff since there was apparently some interaction between him and Cobalt, anything really. But there was a weird void in your statement and it bugs me.

Long story short you already gave me information in your answer, and that information is you didn't want to answer my question. But you did, and you answered it twice without asking me why I repeated it. That's weird. For now though I don't really have anything in particular to say to you or ask you, so do whatever you want.

I don't mean to interrupt your civ/civ squabbles, but Gamer Dude needs more heat.

Civ/Civ squabbles, are they? What makes you think that me and Chief/TGG are civilian?
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

jasonC

  • Mafia Endgame
  • Sourdough Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 3659
  • Rated: +731
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #617 on: April 13, 2015, 10:10:22 am »
Well, Cobalt's play was really bad as mafia, so I don't think he was that, and all the third parties are accounted for now, so that means he played a really shitty civ.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

RadicalFuzz

  • Piece of cake
  • Mafia Endgame
  • White Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 1660
  • Rated: +372
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #618 on: April 13, 2015, 10:26:06 am »
You didn't fully explain. Why do you think I'm civilian? And how did Cobalt's play indicate a third party specifically?
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

Blindknagg

  • Toasts in the Sky
  • Mafia Endgame
  • White Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 1591
  • Rated: +467
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #619 on: April 13, 2015, 10:26:25 am »
It's equally true the other way around too though Jason. Overreacting like that over a day one lynch is really bad no matter what your allegiance are.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

jasonC

  • Mafia Endgame
  • Sourdough Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 3659
  • Rated: +731
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #620 on: April 13, 2015, 10:52:29 am »
You didn't fully explain. Why do you think I'm civilian? And how did Cobalt's play indicate a third party specifically?

I refuse to answer your first question.  As for the second, they didn't specifically, but at the time, third party was the only role I could see fitting assuming that he was playing to his usual strength.  Now I believe he was just playing poorly.

It's equally true the other way around too though Jason. Overreacting like that over a day one lynch is really bad no matter what your allegiance are.

Yea but if you were mafia, you'd vent out in the mafia thread, wouldn't you?  Ok let's say Cobalt jumped the gun and overreacted quickly in thread without consulting mafia, the whole "it was all part of my plan" post tells me that he was acting alone.  He did the "it was all part of my plan" thing in Breaking Bad also, I think nobody really noticed/discussed it, though.
  • Like x 1    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs (List of Rates | 1 Post Total)

The Chief

  • Mafia Endgame
  • White Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 960
  • Burnt Toast
  • Rated: +267
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #621 on: April 13, 2015, 10:55:45 am »
It's equally true the other way around too though Jason. Overreacting like that over a day one lynch is really bad no matter what your allegiance are.

True, but historically, I have never seen a mafia rage quit. Ever.

If this is s thing, please enlighten me.

If you believe Cobalt is crafty enough to quit the game just to help his mafia team, then you all respect him much more than you're letting on by even entertaining the idea. You are also saying his overreacting was fake... and that he would do this to achieve a victory that he would get no credit for.

If anyone believes the above is true without a doubt then buy my next book aptly titled "Read This Book For Me". It is 10 blank pages of blindness... perfectly suited for people who cant read shit.

Here's an excerpt from the first chapter:










































I will autograph by request.
  • Like x 1    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL x 4    Toasty    salty    Toogs (List of Rates | 5 Post Total)

descuffphoenix

  • White Toast
  • ***
  • Posts: 1192
  • DeSlayage
  • Rated: +134
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #622 on: April 13, 2015, 11:05:44 am »
My mafia read on you has 0 to do with calling my posts inconsequential

but continue to believe

also lol at calling me and MP a team but having one of us civ and the other mafia

of course me and MP are on the same team, just not your team unfortunately
What a silly dismissal. You could still both be lovers. You could still be civ/mafia non-lovers, and you supporting MP all along to gain his trust would be just perfect for you as mafia wouldn't it?

Are you actually trying to get civ credit for lynching a 3rd party player

that is like textbook level 1 mafia play


BAHAHAHA YES THIS and I did that last game I was mafia and rode it all game to the win.

I was about to say the exact same thing.  Mafia was just as much needing Raevyn dead as we did.  Actually more so, because they have to drag the game out longer to reach parity than it would take us to lynch them if we played on point, and the longer the game drags out, the more likely Raevyn could've pulled the rug out from under them.

An illogical argument. "I would do this as mafia, therefore he would do this as mafia." It just doesn't work because everyone play differently. Also from my perspective, if I was mafia I would think the chances of grey converting a town is higher than converting a mafia. Therefore it would be nice to wait on lynching the grey so she can convert a couple people, lynch her, someone else is eliminated, the town waste another phase trying to lynch the grey while the mafia pick us off during the night. Sure a risk to the mafia, but an applicable strategy.

An agitated Cobalt is hard to pin down, as the first phase as proven. I expected a mafia Cobalt to be more laid-back and surely someone in the mafia. This is aided by the fact that he basically gave up and I haven't known him to do that at all. Meanwhile you're taking an agitated Cobalt (and my defense) to be an automatic mafia when in truth he just had a very floppy and pathetic game.

Bear with me for a second. "Normal" Cobalt has certain habits and tendencies and intentionally does certain things while intentionally avoiding certain other things. I think you could apply that to pretty much everybody. And when people get really stressed out, referred to as "Agitated" from here on out, they make mistakes, do things without thinking them through, any number of actions that they wouldn't do in a "Normal" state. If you have any issue with this paragraph then explicitly point it out so we can fix any misunderstandings before they begin.

So, now that we have those two states clearly defined, I'm going to look at your first post.

Quote
Cobalt's actions in the past phase were likely due to emotional stress

The first statement you make is saying that Cobalt was acting under a heavy amount of stress. This sets up that Cobalt is in the "Agitated" state. There's nothing wrong with this statement, it's pretty accurate.

Quote
I find it highly unlikely that he was mafia, it just does not fit what he would do as any mafia (though he could still be traitor)

This statement contradicts your first. If he's "Agitated", then he won't be playing normally. Your knowledge of what Cobalt would do as mafia in a "Normal" state isn't going to help you read him if you've already established that he's in an "Agitated" state. In addition you explain neither what he isn't doing that he would as mafia nor why his actions could still fit the Traitor role.

Quote
A power role civ is more than likely at this point and we need to tread lightly

This statement doesn't contradict anything. Its intent is to advise caution, assuming you're civilian, or to spread fear and doubt, assuming you're mafia. I'm leaning slightly towards the latter right now if only because you publicly claim that he's a power role civilian without attempting to set up a Medic 50/50. You mention he's more than likely a power role and drop it.




Quote
Meanwhile you're taking an agitated Cobalt (and my defense) to be an automatic mafia when in truth he just had a very floppy and pathetic game.

I honestly don't care about you defending him, or him defending you, or whatever even happened. My suspicion stems entirely from the above post I just dissected. If you think that's false, then can you point out where I mention you defending him or declare one of you to be an "automatic mafia"? I'm not trying to come across as confrontational with that statement, there are some times I legitimately forget what I've said, so if this is one of those times I want to clear it up.
By point:
1-I have no issue with this paragraph
2-Alright
3-I think perhaps I haven't been clear enough. While he is certainly in an Agitated state, that doesn't mean we still can't tell if he's mafia or civ. While a person may be stressed there is still a hint of the person alignment, or his plan. I eliminated the possibility that he is more likely to be mafia because it simply does not fit even if he was agitated. What I saw was the overreaction of a civ that was trying to avoid a mislynch. I don't know how else to tell you this when that is exactly what my instincts are telling me.
4-I honestly forgot about the medic here but I would assume the medic would be watching for power read sign anyway.
5-This statement was made in general so not necessarily directed at you specifically. But the way some of us were going about it is assuming that Cobalt was mafia or not civ because he was agitated. "automatic mafia" is just a phrase I made up to describe this, though probably poor choice of words.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs
Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only.

Gamer Dude

  • Rye Toast
  • **
  • Posts: 157
  • Burnt Toast
  • Rated: +35
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #623 on: April 13, 2015, 11:22:14 am »
@jasonC

descuff was being very self aware on a day and now today he is taking lines which are very consistent with common mafia play

I'll go grab a post or 2 to give you an example
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

Gamer Dude

  • Rye Toast
  • **
  • Posts: 157
  • Burnt Toast
  • Rated: +35
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #624 on: April 13, 2015, 11:34:37 am »
Too many quotes to bother posting so you can go and see for yourself

he has a back and forth with Syn simply talking about what kind of player he is. The entire goal of the conversation is to ease Syn's suspicion of him.

Mafia are almost always self aware and they are a lot more likely to be concerned with how others perceive them

Civs job is to search out and find those attempting to wrong us and mafia need to fit in

so basic psychology has mafia being more self aware and this led to my initial suspicion towards descuff
  • Like x 1    Dislike    Agree x 1    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs (List of Rates | 2 Post Total)

jasonC

  • Mafia Endgame
  • Sourdough Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 3659
  • Rated: +731
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #625 on: April 13, 2015, 11:57:43 am »
What the "lines" that he's taking today which is "consistent with common mafia play"? 
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

descuffphoenix

  • White Toast
  • ***
  • Posts: 1192
  • DeSlayage
  • Rated: +134
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #626 on: April 13, 2015, 12:00:19 pm »
Too many quotes to bother posting so you can go and see for yourself

he has a back and forth with Syn simply talking about what kind of player he is. The entire goal of the conversation is to ease Syn's suspicion of him.

Mafia are almost always self aware and they are a lot more likely to be concerned with how others perceive them

Civs job is to search out and find those attempting to wrong us and mafia need to fit in

so basic psychology has mafia being more self aware and this led to my initial suspicion towards descuff

So far you're doing a great job. Well done.


What suspicion was there to be ease? I was questioning why Synoynm would suspect me of "passively working for a few different people" because I had no recollection of working for anyone. It felt staged and I wondered rather he was mafia, however he cleared it up in his next response and I responded as I should. Also we hardly talked about the kind of player I was.

See the full convo here:
Spoiler for Hiden:



Phoenix is the person who set off bells for me early on. He just seems to be passively working a few different people and getting his behaviour justified by others.


Is this pick on the new guys day? I wasn't even aware that I was "passively working for a few different people." Could you care to point out what gave you that idea?


@Synonym I still request an explanation on this matter. If you don't want to answer then say so.

Okay sport, didn't see your first post primarily because I was out drinking last night.

1. It might as well be pick on the new guys day. I'm not a particularly tactful or diplomatic player. If you're upset that someone is calling you out and isn't being nice then you're probably going to hate this game.

2. If you're going to put something in parenthesis for emphasis at least user copy and paste so you don't fuck it up. You were passively working a few people, not for them. In the same sense a comedian works an audience.

3. I'll have to get back to you because as stated previously I can't multi quote and I'll have to go and manually copy all of the posts. The gist of it is that you agreed with a few different players with different opinions without really offering your own firm stance up. That screams Mafia trying to blend in and not step on toes.

Fuck SRK.

Understandable.

1. If you thought I was mad or upset then lol. That was a joke which is why it was in italics.

2. Ah that clear some things up because I wasn't aware that I was "working for" anyone. I have no idea what you're talking about with parenthesis. Did you mean quotation marks? That was just one post where I didn't felt like digging out exact quotes. Glad you're enjoying the show though!

3. I'm a patient man. However I fail to see how I didn't offer some of my own opinions and gotten drilled for it already. Or were you expecting a nice big list of originality? I still think this Cobalt's issue is being set up deliberately either by himself or others and now looking around as to who's leading it, should he turned out to be civ.

Of course I'm "self-aware" but treating it like a mafia only-symptom is the key flaw in your argument. What I have been doing is defense
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs
Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only.

RadicalFuzz

  • Piece of cake
  • Mafia Endgame
  • White Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 1660
  • Rated: +372
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #627 on: April 13, 2015, 12:16:42 pm »
Descuff's entire above post, spoilered because quoting multi-quotes is hard:
Spoiler for Hiden:
My mafia read on you has 0 to do with calling my posts inconsequential

but continue to believe

also lol at calling me and MP a team but having one of us civ and the other mafia

of course me and MP are on the same team, just not your team unfortunately
What a silly dismissal. You could still both be lovers. You could still be civ/mafia non-lovers, and you supporting MP all along to gain his trust would be just perfect for you as mafia wouldn't it?

Are you actually trying to get civ credit for lynching a 3rd party player

that is like textbook level 1 mafia play


BAHAHAHA YES THIS and I did that last game I was mafia and rode it all game to the win.

I was about to say the exact same thing.  Mafia was just as much needing Raevyn dead as we did.  Actually more so, because they have to drag the game out longer to reach parity than it would take us to lynch them if we played on point, and the longer the game drags out, the more likely Raevyn could've pulled the rug out from under them.

An illogical argument. "I would do this as mafia, therefore he would do this as mafia." It just doesn't work because everyone play differently. Also from my perspective, if I was mafia I would think the chances of grey converting a town is higher than converting a mafia. Therefore it would be nice to wait on lynching the grey so she can convert a couple people, lynch her, someone else is eliminated, the town waste another phase trying to lynch the grey while the mafia pick us off during the night. Sure a risk to the mafia, but an applicable strategy.

An agitated Cobalt is hard to pin down, as the first phase as proven. I expected a mafia Cobalt to be more laid-back and surely someone in the mafia. This is aided by the fact that he basically gave up and I haven't known him to do that at all. Meanwhile you're taking an agitated Cobalt (and my defense) to be an automatic mafia when in truth he just had a very floppy and pathetic game.

Bear with me for a second. "Normal" Cobalt has certain habits and tendencies and intentionally does certain things while intentionally avoiding certain other things. I think you could apply that to pretty much everybody. And when people get really stressed out, referred to as "Agitated" from here on out, they make mistakes, do things without thinking them through, any number of actions that they wouldn't do in a "Normal" state. If you have any issue with this paragraph then explicitly point it out so we can fix any misunderstandings before they begin.

So, now that we have those two states clearly defined, I'm going to look at your first post.

Quote
Cobalt's actions in the past phase were likely due to emotional stress

The first statement you make is saying that Cobalt was acting under a heavy amount of stress. This sets up that Cobalt is in the "Agitated" state. There's nothing wrong with this statement, it's pretty accurate.

Quote
I find it highly unlikely that he was mafia, it just does not fit what he would do as any mafia (though he could still be traitor)

This statement contradicts your first. If he's "Agitated", then he won't be playing normally. Your knowledge of what Cobalt would do as mafia in a "Normal" state isn't going to help you read him if you've already established that he's in an "Agitated" state. In addition you explain neither what he isn't doing that he would as mafia nor why his actions could still fit the Traitor role.

Quote
A power role civ is more than likely at this point and we need to tread lightly

This statement doesn't contradict anything. Its intent is to advise caution, assuming you're civilian, or to spread fear and doubt, assuming you're mafia. I'm leaning slightly towards the latter right now if only because you publicly claim that he's a power role civilian without attempting to set up a Medic 50/50. You mention he's more than likely a power role and drop it.




Quote
Meanwhile you're taking an agitated Cobalt (and my defense) to be an automatic mafia when in truth he just had a very floppy and pathetic game.

I honestly don't care about you defending him, or him defending you, or whatever even happened. My suspicion stems entirely from the above post I just dissected. If you think that's false, then can you point out where I mention you defending him or declare one of you to be an "automatic mafia"? I'm not trying to come across as confrontational with that statement, there are some times I legitimately forget what I've said, so if this is one of those times I want to clear it up.
By point:
1-I have no issue with this paragraph
2-Alright
3-I think perhaps I haven't been clear enough. While he is certainly in an Agitated state, that doesn't mean we still can't tell if he's mafia or civ. While a person may be stressed there is still a hint of the person alignment, or his plan. I eliminated the possibility that he is more likely to be mafia because it simply does not fit even if he was agitated. What I saw was the overreaction of a civ that was trying to avoid a mislynch. I don't know how else to tell you this when that is exactly what my instincts are telling me.
4-I honestly forgot about the medic here but I would assume the medic would be watching for power read sign anyway.
5-This statement was made in general so not necessarily directed at you specifically. But the way some of us were going about it is assuming that Cobalt was mafia or not civ because he was agitated. "automatic mafia" is just a phrase I made up to describe this, though probably poor choice of words.

3 - Different states of mind are almost different players, and it's easier to treat them like that. Your read on what Cobalt would normally do as mafia isn't useless, it's a good starting point, but putting enough faith in it to proclaim to the entire thread that he's a power role doesn't add up
4 - You called attention to the fact that you believe a player is an important civilian role at a time when you were not conscious of a Medic. Nothing good can come of that. When you make that statement you're putting yourself in a position where your best case scenario involves you being wrong. Assuming you're right the best that can realistically come of it is an Enforce on a role every night while he stays alive with very low credibility. If you are civilian that's a big inconsistency
5 - Okay, I thought you were addressing me specifically. So the "you're" in that statement would be referring to the town in general, then?
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

descuffphoenix

  • White Toast
  • ***
  • Posts: 1192
  • DeSlayage
  • Rated: +134
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #628 on: April 13, 2015, 12:28:08 pm »
Descuff's entire above post, spoilered because quoting multi-quotes is hard:
Spoiler for Hiden:
My mafia read on you has 0 to do with calling my posts inconsequential

but continue to believe

also lol at calling me and MP a team but having one of us civ and the other mafia

of course me and MP are on the same team, just not your team unfortunately
What a silly dismissal. You could still both be lovers. You could still be civ/mafia non-lovers, and you supporting MP all along to gain his trust would be just perfect for you as mafia wouldn't it?

Are you actually trying to get civ credit for lynching a 3rd party player

that is like textbook level 1 mafia play


BAHAHAHA YES THIS and I did that last game I was mafia and rode it all game to the win.

I was about to say the exact same thing.  Mafia was just as much needing Raevyn dead as we did.  Actually more so, because they have to drag the game out longer to reach parity than it would take us to lynch them if we played on point, and the longer the game drags out, the more likely Raevyn could've pulled the rug out from under them.

An illogical argument. "I would do this as mafia, therefore he would do this as mafia." It just doesn't work because everyone play differently. Also from my perspective, if I was mafia I would think the chances of grey converting a town is higher than converting a mafia. Therefore it would be nice to wait on lynching the grey so she can convert a couple people, lynch her, someone else is eliminated, the town waste another phase trying to lynch the grey while the mafia pick us off during the night. Sure a risk to the mafia, but an applicable strategy.

An agitated Cobalt is hard to pin down, as the first phase as proven. I expected a mafia Cobalt to be more laid-back and surely someone in the mafia. This is aided by the fact that he basically gave up and I haven't known him to do that at all. Meanwhile you're taking an agitated Cobalt (and my defense) to be an automatic mafia when in truth he just had a very floppy and pathetic game.

Bear with me for a second. "Normal" Cobalt has certain habits and tendencies and intentionally does certain things while intentionally avoiding certain other things. I think you could apply that to pretty much everybody. And when people get really stressed out, referred to as "Agitated" from here on out, they make mistakes, do things without thinking them through, any number of actions that they wouldn't do in a "Normal" state. If you have any issue with this paragraph then explicitly point it out so we can fix any misunderstandings before they begin.

So, now that we have those two states clearly defined, I'm going to look at your first post.

Quote
Cobalt's actions in the past phase were likely due to emotional stress

The first statement you make is saying that Cobalt was acting under a heavy amount of stress. This sets up that Cobalt is in the "Agitated" state. There's nothing wrong with this statement, it's pretty accurate.

Quote
I find it highly unlikely that he was mafia, it just does not fit what he would do as any mafia (though he could still be traitor)

This statement contradicts your first. If he's "Agitated", then he won't be playing normally. Your knowledge of what Cobalt would do as mafia in a "Normal" state isn't going to help you read him if you've already established that he's in an "Agitated" state. In addition you explain neither what he isn't doing that he would as mafia nor why his actions could still fit the Traitor role.

Quote
A power role civ is more than likely at this point and we need to tread lightly

This statement doesn't contradict anything. Its intent is to advise caution, assuming you're civilian, or to spread fear and doubt, assuming you're mafia. I'm leaning slightly towards the latter right now if only because you publicly claim that he's a power role civilian without attempting to set up a Medic 50/50. You mention he's more than likely a power role and drop it.




Quote
Meanwhile you're taking an agitated Cobalt (and my defense) to be an automatic mafia when in truth he just had a very floppy and pathetic game.

I honestly don't care about you defending him, or him defending you, or whatever even happened. My suspicion stems entirely from the above post I just dissected. If you think that's false, then can you point out where I mention you defending him or declare one of you to be an "automatic mafia"? I'm not trying to come across as confrontational with that statement, there are some times I legitimately forget what I've said, so if this is one of those times I want to clear it up.
By point:
1-I have no issue with this paragraph
2-Alright
3-I think perhaps I haven't been clear enough. While he is certainly in an Agitated state, that doesn't mean we still can't tell if he's mafia or civ. While a person may be stressed there is still a hint of the person alignment, or his plan. I eliminated the possibility that he is more likely to be mafia because it simply does not fit even if he was agitated. What I saw was the overreaction of a civ that was trying to avoid a mislynch. I don't know how else to tell you this when that is exactly what my instincts are telling me.
4-I honestly forgot about the medic here but I would assume the medic would be watching for power read sign anyway.
5-This statement was made in general so not necessarily directed at you specifically. But the way some of us were going about it is assuming that Cobalt was mafia or not civ because he was agitated. "automatic mafia" is just a phrase I made up to describe this, though probably poor choice of words.

3 - Different states of mind are almost different players, and it's easier to treat them like that. Your read on what Cobalt would normally do as mafia isn't useless, it's a good starting point, but putting enough faith in it to proclaim to the entire thread that he's a power role doesn't add up
4 - You called attention to the fact that you believe a player is an important civilian role at a time when you were not conscious of a Medic. Nothing good can come of that. When you make that statement you're putting yourself in a position where your best case scenario involves you being wrong. Assuming you're right the best that can realistically come of it is an Enforce on a role every night while he stays alive with very low credibility. If you are civilian that's a big inconsistency
5 - Okay, I thought you were addressing me specifically. So the "you're" in that statement would be referring to the town in general, then?

3- I suggested he was a power role because it seems he was intent on preserving his card with Chief as his replacement. I don't see where it doesn't add up. In basics, my conclusion came upon like this: Irrational Cobalt -> Not playing like mafia -> Felt the need to drop out and use the replacement and apologize ->  I assume that he has a power role because of the implied importance he placed.

4- An oversight indeed.

5- Oh no, not just the town but only those who suspected him like so.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs
Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only. Logic only.

DrWilgy

  • Mad Scientist (Doctor)
  • White Toast
  • ***
  • Posts: 1318
  • Salt Inc. (Ft. Phorcys)
  • Rated: +218
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #629 on: April 13, 2015, 01:16:47 pm »
So I received a message from the beyond and it told me to attempt to tally the votes!
 
potential votes for Descuff: Fuzz, Gamer Dude, MP
potential votes for FPSG: Descuff, Alpha, Pimp Willy, Aidebit, Kaz, JonathanT88

Concerned by Descuff, TGG, and Blinknagg

Iím indifferent to Chief now, and would like a signed copy of your book to use as a centerpiece.

I donít see where Alpha was confirmed civ. Even if he posted before role cards went public, I see no evidence as to why he wouldnít place a defending seed, I mean who doesnít want to be a civ when it comes to the lynch? Pimp Willy being confirmed is even less unclear to me, especially since Bious sent that message. I feel as if that somewhat undermined the power Alpha had with his statement. By no means do I think that they are lying, but something feels off. Iím unsure why Bious would make a post like that to the entire group unless it was important. Also another civ may be hiding who BW revealed to. With Alphaís claim rather hard to dispute, anyone stepping up at this point would most likely be deemed a liar.

Also I donít appreciate Descuff defending me when a bunch of people think heís playing scummy.  This isnít the Titanic; IíM not going to go down with the ship! Do forgive me if I have been unclear, I may have stated earlier that Iím trying my best to get a general feel for everyone here that I havenít met yet. Descuff turning down my offer at friendship shows malicious intentÖ But I donít see any reason why not to lynch Widow tonight

Another thing about Descuff,
*and surely someone in the mafia would've calmed him down.
seEms to be quite the bold statement. Itís as if you know a majority of the mafia playerís patterns. I don't know Cobalt, but what would prevent'em from ranting on the thread if Mafia didn't really care about what was said.

I didn't answer that because there's nothing for me to fear from Cobalt "slipping up" any worse than he's already Done. Let me ask you a similar question then, is there something you don't want to be revealed if Cobalt was lynched which urged you to vote for Raevyn? Why not disclose in the thread who you're voting for if you're so sure that the Raevyn lynch would go through?
I had one more vote In my favorable choice of lynch. That is the sole reason. I honestly couldn't care less if Chief/Cobalt are lynched today. What has gone down over the course of the past few days has disrupted my read on them, and that's why I asked everyone's opinion on Chief. Disclosing my vote may have also pushed someone to cause a purposeful tie, that is something we can't forget about.

My one mafia read is DrWigly (sp?)... but it all depends on what the voices decide to do.
I'm unsure what I've said would point you in that conclusion. I would appreciate it if you would let me know, or is this just because I was still Curious about you?  ;)

Ass to mouth, do you think wilgy is scum or just a really special snowflake?

A room within a room, a door behind a door.
<33333
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs
God damn wiggles, that's one of the best deaths I've had.

Gamer Dude

  • Rye Toast
  • **
  • Posts: 157
  • Burnt Toast
  • Rated: +35
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #630 on: April 13, 2015, 01:23:55 pm »
What the "lines" that he's taking today which is "consistent with common mafia play"?

Trying to get credit for lynch a third party

Trying to cast doubt on lynching the traitor, whom would be quite beneficial to the mafia team

Again continuing to be self aware making the mafia favored "I would do this regardless of alignment" and such

OMGUSing left and right

just so much against him at the moment I find it difficult to believe anyone has a legitimate civ read on him
  • Like    Dislike    Agree x 1    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs (List of Rates | 1 Post Total)

Gamer Dude

  • Rye Toast
  • **
  • Posts: 157
  • Burnt Toast
  • Rated: +35
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #631 on: April 13, 2015, 01:25:57 pm »
Too many quotes to bother posting so you can go and see for yourself

he has a back and forth with Syn simply talking about what kind of player he is. The entire goal of the conversation is to ease Syn's suspicion of him.

Mafia are almost always self aware and they are a lot more likely to be concerned with how others perceive them

Civs job is to search out and find those attempting to wrong us and mafia need to fit in

so basic psychology has mafia being more self aware and this led to my initial suspicion towards descuff

So far you're doing a great job. Well done.


What suspicion was there to be ease? I was questioning why Synoynm would suspect me of "passively working for a few different people" because I had no recollection of working for anyone. It felt staged and I wondered rather he was mafia, however he cleared it up in his next response and I responded as I should. Also we hardly talked about the kind of player I was.

So you defense is passively aggressively calling me mafia while once again attempting to refute any possible theory your mafia.

#Seemslegit
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

Blindknagg

  • Toasts in the Sky
  • Mafia Endgame
  • White Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 1591
  • Rated: +467
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #632 on: April 13, 2015, 01:35:56 pm »
I donít see where Alpha was confirmed civ. Even if he posted before role cards went public, I see no evidence as to why he wouldnít place a defending seed, I mean who doesnít want to be a civ when it comes to the lynch? Pimp Willy being confirmed is even less unclear to me, especially since Bious sent that message. I feel as if that somewhat undermined the power Alpha had with his statement. By no means do I think that they are lying, but something feels off. Iím unsure why Bious would make a post like that to the entire group unless it was important. Also another civ may be hiding who BW revealed to. With Alphaís claim rather hard to dispute, anyone stepping up at this point would most likely be deemed a liar.

I doubt that even Alpha would be able to correctly guess who the traitor is day 1 so unless FPSG flips either civ or the bomb tomorrow(not likely) that to me makes Alpha as confirmed as he can get without the UC clearing him.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

The Chief

  • Mafia Endgame
  • White Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 960
  • Burnt Toast
  • Rated: +267
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #633 on: April 13, 2015, 01:37:27 pm »
@ DrWigly - Yes. You say you're in different on me now, but your first post when I stayed playing was basically "so we still lynching Chief?". I guarantee that if the consensus was yes, you would've hoped on board without flinching. All you needed was someone else to hold the door open. Since it didn't happen, you back peddle. It would look cleaner for you to stay the course.

Maybe it's my posts, I'd say you're reading them, but the fact that you want an autographed copy of my book tells me you're not reading anything.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

RadicalFuzz

  • Piece of cake
  • Mafia Endgame
  • White Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 1660
  • Rated: +372
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #634 on: April 13, 2015, 01:45:05 pm »
I was loose with my words, I didn't mean to imply that you thought the entire town believed him to be "automatic mafia"

There's not much benefit for me to continue this conversation, we've both said our piece.

I refuse to answer your first question

If you're still alive when I die you're going to answer it. You're holding the answer as protection so it can't be used against you, and that's fine, but when I die you're going to talk.

Another thing, Jason. What's your stance on the Pimp/Alpha "confirmed civ via pre-game post" ordeal?



Black Widow's role card reads:
Quote
If that player is part of the Mafia you will convert to their side and be granted a free kill to use the next[/i] night phase

There's no reason to lynch Fruit Punch on his own since he can't kill until the night after he recruits. The main reason we would want to lynch him is to avoid lynching a role, or if the town can't reach a general consensus. In other words, lynching FPSG is better than no-lynching but worse than lynching mafia. That being said, where are we going today? I know several people, Alpha in particular, would rather be done with Fruit Punch entirely today, and some would rather attempt to lynch mafia. We need to start a vote tally, it'll be easier now when we still have 18 hours left than scrambling at the last minute and risking inaccuracy or potential doctoring.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

XthAtGAm3RGuYX

  • White Toast
  • ***
  • Posts: 1770
  • Brother of Brine
  • Rated: +714
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #635 on: April 13, 2015, 01:46:07 pm »

I don't want anything in particular from you now TGG, unless you're up for another question. I was hoping that, with how extensively you got off track in your first empty response, you would talk about the ramifications that would have on the game. We had the Day 1 vote tally at that time, we had a list of about 8 players that voted for Cobalt, but you didn't want to name names. Something like where to go next, maybe "X is somewhat suspicious already, if Chief were to flip Bomb then we would need to take a closer look at him", maybe a stronger read on Descuff since there was apparently some interaction between him and Cobalt, anything really. But there was a weird void in your statement and it bugs me.

Long story short you already gave me information in your answer, and that information is you didn't want to answer my question. But you did, and you answered it twice without asking me why I repeated it. That's weird. For now though I don't really have anything in particular to say to you or ask you, so do whatever you want.

I probably just interpreted your question wrong. Or you may have worded it somewhat oddly so that I didn't initially get what you wanted. Either way, saying that I "Didnt want to answer your question" is kinda dumb dont you think? Did I or did I not reply 3 times in an attempt to further clarify what I thought?

as for this line
Quote
X is somewhat suspicious already, if Chief were to flip Bomb then we would need to take a closer look at him",
I didn't really have any reads on anybody else and still kinda dont. I need at least 2-3 days worth of votes to really start connecting any dots. Only players I have an issue with besides my pending Cobalt/Chief thing, is DrWilgy and MP. MP mostly because of his "Call it a hunch" line when asked about his potential vote to me. "Call it a hunch" is normally used by people as a sarcastic way to explain knowing something, when they got the info from somewhere else beforehand. Refer to any movie using it, or your friendly neighborhood smart ass. MP doesn't play based on "hunches". Maybe he has somebody in his ear?

Also Forge's lack of activity disturbs. Not to mention the fact that WE HAVE YET TO HEAR FROM @ZOOLANDER
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

XthAtGAm3RGuYX

  • White Toast
  • ***
  • Posts: 1770
  • Brother of Brine
  • Rated: +714
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #636 on: April 13, 2015, 01:48:12 pm »
Also @RadicalFuzz you seem rather disappointed with your previous interaction with me. So I'll take your offer and implore you to ask me another burning question you have, provided you have any at the moment.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

jasonC

  • Mafia Endgame
  • Sourdough Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 3659
  • Rated: +731
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #637 on: April 13, 2015, 01:49:46 pm »
It wasn't an ordeal.  It was smart play and I'm glad I put those two in my top 3 votes for GoC candidacy.
  • Like x 1    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty x 1    Toogs (List of Rates | 1 Post Total)

Synonym

  • ಥ_ಥ
  • Spam Defender
  • White Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 1794
  • Brother of Brine
  • Rated: +783
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #638 on: April 13, 2015, 02:10:01 pm »
For the record, I PM'd bious about the roles as well as a couple of other issues. Had duty LST night so I'll be catching up this morning.

A room within a room, a door behind a door.

  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs
Join us. Baptize yourself in the Brine, and call yourself a Brother of mine.
Lustful moans can be heard from the girls bathroom. Several moments pass and Synonym steps out of bathroom wearing only his pants. It seem's that Fleur's Chamber of Secrets isn't such a secret to his wand anymore.

RadicalFuzz

  • Piece of cake
  • Mafia Endgame
  • White Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 1660
  • Rated: +372
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #639 on: April 13, 2015, 02:16:19 pm »
I like playing this game with you Jason.

TGG. Yes you responded multiple times to my question, which I want to reiterate I appreciate. And it is entirely possible that you misunderstood the question, I'm not in your head and can't look into your thought process. However, at the heart of my question I asked you about conclusions you would draw from vote patterns against a player if (and this is a hypothetical) they were the Bomb. Your first response did not make any mention of conclusions you would draw from a player's death, vote patterns, or any of that. All it talked about was the likelihood of that player to actually be the Bomb. The second time you give me an answer but over half of that post was reiterating what the Bomb role does. You didn't respond in order to clarify what you thought, either, your second response was completely independent of the first. The first talked about Cobalt and the likelihood that he was the Bomb while the second answered my question and recited a rolecard in your own words. You have responded to my question multiple times, but you've been trying not to directly answer it.

Also, thanks for offering to answer another question but I don't have any at the moment, that was a lie. You can get off the witness stand now if you'd like, and take your place back at the bench.

Side note: This is cherry-picking to an extent but in previous games MP has gone with feeling, this isn't completely new. Main example being the Musicians game, he declared out of the blue that someone from Team Texas was mafia because none of us had been mafia in about 3 or 4 games. I think he even admitted it was Gambler's Fallacy in the game. Really odd prediction since SAD was third party and Forge & I mafia & civ, but gambler's fallacy nonetheless. That directly affected me, so it's likely that it left a bigger imprint upon me than his actions towards others, but the point stands that he's operated like that before. I don't think it speaks to his allegiance. Maybe his competence, if anything he tends to be less correct than usual when he operates like that, but not his allegiance.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

DrWilgy

  • Mad Scientist (Doctor)
  • White Toast
  • ***
  • Posts: 1318
  • Salt Inc. (Ft. Phorcys)
  • Rated: +218
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #640 on: April 13, 2015, 02:26:19 pm »
@ DrWigly - Yes. You say you're in different on me now, but your first post when I stayed playing was basically "so we still lynching Chief?". I guarantee that if the consensus was yes, you would've hoped on board without flinching. All you needed was someone else to hold the door open. Since it didn't happen, you back peddle. It would look cleaner for you to stay the course.

Maybe it's my posts, I'd say you're reading them, but the fact that you want an autographed copy of my book tells me you're not reading anything.
LoL! This is a mafia game and you think that my want to gather more info is abnormal or targeted without reason? you described it earlier, that you were put in the hot seat by Cobalt. It makes sense that if no more means of targeting you was presented that I would stop caring XD It was the will of the dark organizations of the world that you are placed there though. I'm actually glad you are still with us, you alone are keeping me from immediately voting for Descruff. It would be extremely unfortunate if Descruff turns out to be maf after you've defended him and the ordeal that happened.

Now that my spells have refreshed I will once again try to cast Detect Alignment! *rolls a 4 out of 20*        ...I guess it's getting better...
  • Like    Dislike    Agree x 1    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs (List of Rates | 1 Post Total)
God damn wiggles, that's one of the best deaths I've had.

jasonC

  • Mafia Endgame
  • Sourdough Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 3659
  • Rated: +731
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #641 on: April 13, 2015, 02:36:36 pm »
Lol Chief, don't be salty!  Ask Forge who I voted for #1.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL x 1    Toasty    salty    Toogs (List of Rates | 1 Post Total)

ForgeDigger

  • One True Starfish
  • Mafia Endgame
  • Sourdough Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 2529
  • I hate you
  • Rated: +619
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #642 on: April 13, 2015, 02:41:48 pm »
Finally able to post after my long day of work. School is annoying. e.e

First order of business: Alpha is 100% civ (unless FPSG doesn't flip widow). It doesn't seem likely that Pimp would ask Bious if that were the roleless civ card looked like, and I'm inclined to believe that he is also roleless civ after today's results.

Secondly, this question of whether we should get rid of FPSG now or later is almost the same argument of getting rid of the gray spay. We would either have to get the widow today or tomorrow if we completely wanted to prevent the possibilty of the mafia gaining a night kill. While, yes, it's true that we could lynch him whenever we get the confirmation that he's gone black and will never go back, the usefulness of this ability of his becomes more effective the later it is in the game, assuming we keep mislynching. I don't see the point in waiting. We may as well get it over with now.

The problem is that I think Augustus was a pretty safe kill.

Suspicions:
I don't like GD's arguments. I see how some of them could be almost right, but believing in them would be silly. Like how only mafia are self-aware; that's close to being true, as mafia has more to lose than civs do, but I wouldn't say that exclusively mafia are self-aware. I would argue that it's also important to be self-aware when you are civilian, as you might do things that are scummy and lead the town to lynch you otherwise. Probably my top mafia read right now.

I still don't like Wilgy's behavior from last lynch. And, while the vote counter seems helpful, I'm not sure if he's really done anything else of notable contribution.

I don't know if it's just because Chief is harder to read than Cobalt or what, but I'm starting to see him more on the civilian side.

I'm still on the fence about descuff. I'm not seeing his behavior under pressure as particularly damning, and his arguments have been pretty solid.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs
かえるおねがい!

c:

ForgeDigger

  • One True Starfish
  • Mafia Endgame
  • Sourdough Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 2529
  • I hate you
  • Rated: +619
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #643 on: April 13, 2015, 02:42:32 pm »
Jason voted for me all 7 times. I told him that was against the rules, but he said he couldn't help it. c:
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL x 2    Toasty    salty    Toogs (List of Rates | 2 Post Total)
かえるおねがい!

c:

ForgeDigger

  • One True Starfish
  • Mafia Endgame
  • Sourdough Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 2529
  • I hate you
  • Rated: +619
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #644 on: April 13, 2015, 02:42:59 pm »
(Seriously though. I'm not at liberty to discuss that information.)
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs
かえるおねがい!

c:

Gamer Dude

  • Rye Toast
  • **
  • Posts: 157
  • Burnt Toast
  • Rated: +35
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #645 on: April 13, 2015, 03:04:41 pm »
Forge my argument isn't mafia aren't exclusively self aware but a large percentage of the time the ones who are self aware are mafia

this led me to be suspicious of Descuff which grew increasingly as the game has progressed

  • Like x 1    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs (List of Rates | 1 Post Total)

XthAtGAm3RGuYX

  • White Toast
  • ***
  • Posts: 1770
  • Brother of Brine
  • Rated: +714
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #646 on: April 13, 2015, 03:21:55 pm »
I think killing Fruit Punch right now isn't very helpful to be honest. Yeah he is the Widow, but he cant do anything until the night after he gets recruited. He doesnt even count towards mafia numbers until the recruit either unless I am assuming incorrectly. For the moment I think we should set Fruit punch off to the side, and lynch him when he becomes an active mafia. Otherwise all we're doing is giving the mafia a bigger lead while we lynch a technically "not mafia" for the time being player.

He is expendable to the mafia now since everybody knows who he is, especially since he wont even get the night kill anymore because we (hopefully) would lynch him the following day after a convert. So really anybody who votes to lynch Fruit Punch before he converts will draw suspicion from me. Mafia can help lynch Fruit Punch as a stalling tactic.

You can get off the witness stand now if you'd like

So does that mean, that, like, I can go home now?
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

RadicalFuzz

  • Piece of cake
  • Mafia Endgame
  • White Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 1660
  • Rated: +372
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #647 on: April 13, 2015, 03:37:31 pm »
While lynching Fruit Punch is a stalling tactic the Mafia can use to "freeze the game" for a day phase, the same is true for us. By lynching Fruit Punch, we guarantee that we don't hit Mafia, yes, but we also guarantee we don't hit one of our roles. Both sides have Fruit Punch as an easy fallback in the event they don't have a vote planned or their reasoning is poor. This entire situation is very interesting. Funny how the third parties were revealed so quickly and how static a role they played.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

Bious

  • Shaking
  • Mafia Endgame
  • Sourdough Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 2264
  • Rated: +700
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #648 on: April 13, 2015, 03:49:45 pm »
Please remember that I'm not accepting any votes unless they are PM'd.
  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs

Blindknagg

  • Toasts in the Sky
  • Mafia Endgame
  • White Toast
  • *
  • Posts: 1591
  • Rated: +467
Re: JTM Mafia #3: Spy vs Spy Day 1 (Spies Among Us)
« Reply #649 on: April 13, 2015, 04:22:59 pm »
I'm out for the night so won't be online for a few hours. Placing my vote on FPSG for now.

Lynch FPSG

  • Like    Dislike    Agree    Disagree    WTF    Insightful    LOL    Toasty    salty    Toogs